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Since Hillary Clinton withdrew from the presidential race, there has been a minor backlash of some Clinton supporters claiming sexism was in play during the campaign. As a result, there are some groups spearheading a movement aimed at convincing Clinton voters that the better choice in November is John McCain.
Video report from the Associated Press:
A report from Yahoo News:
CHICAGO - They may not be falling in love, but they’re falling in line.
Prominent supporters of Hillary Rodham Clinton are embracing Barack Obama, literally and figuratively, even though some remain bitter about her loss in a presidential primary process that they feel treated her unfairly.
In several key states this week, Obama is being joined on stages by top Democrats who, a few weeks ago, were working to deny him the nomination.
“I know I’m late, but I am on the train,” North Carolina Gov. Mike Easley said Monday in introducing Obama in Raleigh. “I’d rather be a bum on the boxcar of the Obama train than at the front of the bus with John McCain,” he said of Obama’s Republican opponent.
A few in the crowd of 900 briefly booed Easley, whose endorsement of Clinton failed to stop Obama from an easy win in the May 6 primary, which all but doomed the former first lady’s hopes.
Some, however, can barely speak the words without betraying their disappointment that Clinton will not become the party’s first female nominee. Obama has a lot of work to do, they say.
“There is definitely a period of mourning that ardent Hillary Clinton supporters are going through,” Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla., told reporters in a conference call Wednesday. “I think there is a fairly large group of women that are going to need to be won over. And that’s going to take some time.”
Wasserman Schultz said she believes most Democratic women eventually will back Obama because, unlike McCain, he supports abortion rights, a prompt end to the Iraq war and other issues important to them.
One of our guest commentators posted a lengthy piece on this today, you can check that out here.
I personally don’t think this is going to be as big a movement by the time November comes around. Are some Clinton supporters going to support McCain? I’m sure some will, however, I’m sure most Clinton supporters will fall in line with Obama.
That being said, some big names like Geraldine Ferraro have hinted they would rather vote for McCain simply because they feel Clinton was not treated fairly by the Democratic Party or the media.
We’ll see come November.
(2 votes, average: 5 out of 5)
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It’s pretty ridiculous that someone would vote for a candidate who supports policy that they are against, and whose beliefs are, in general, completely opposed to theirs, just because their candidate didn’t win. I’d imagine a small group of these people are racists who would never vote for a Black guy, but these types usually vote Republican (not insinuating anything here, don’t take it the wrong way). It would seem to me that the majority of these people are simply angry that their candidate didn’t win, a sort of “sore loser” scenario. The sting of their defeat hurt less and less, however, as the election moves on. I’d be willing to bet that most of them will have changed their minds by November.
Great article, Nate.
I don’t think Clinton supporters have to vote for Obama by any means. You should vote for the candidate that has earned your trust and votes in accordance to your views when it comes to issues that are important to you. All I’m saying is if Obama hasn’t done that for you yet, give him a chance.
I visited Hillary’s website and I was astounded by the number of hateful “Nobama 08†and “McCain 08 Clinton 12†posts. There are people out there who are voting for McCain despite Clinton’s support of Obama simply for the chance she may run and win in 2012. Basically, they are forgoing the next fours years of their lives (and mine).
I just want Clinton supporters to have an open mind to Obama. Let him prove himself; November’s a good five months away.
i hear obama is making his wife resign from the public eye due to her obvious lack of patriotism.
stop cap and trade
vote glen beck
to Josh and Michelle, and any other Obama enthusiasts…The Hillary supporters voted for her because we obviously felt she is the Best, most experienced person for the job. This isn’t an American Idol contest…this is for the President of the United States of America…wake up people, if we didn’t trust him to do the job before…what’s changed to make us vote for him now? We don’t trust him to turn our country back on the right track…we don’t trust his judgement, all you have to do is take a look at his associates! He’s not what he’s pretending to be. The Dean DNC along with the media tried to shove Obama down our throats, while trying to get Hillary to drop out of the race, because she was winning, she did win…almost 18 million americans voted for her…don’t you understand…NEVER has a candidate been pushed to drop out while they were winning states like she was…Hillary should have been going to the convention, tied with Obama…BUT the DEAN DNC decided they would give the election to him and got the Supers to go along with it. He didn’t win anything…he was given the election. Let’s see if he can stay out of trouble until the convention…Hillary could still win! And if the Supers don’t come to there senses…we’ll at least feel safe with McCain!!
Joyce,
I was only making the point that you could give Obama a chance to prove himself. As far as your comment regarding his associates:
I’m not a veteran voter or anything, but I vote based on policy and character of the person. The person, not those who could be linked to him.
Michelle Obama? She’s not a politician, she’s a woman from Illinois who is as outspoken and different as any other woman. You may not agree with everything she says, but she’s not running for president.
Reverend Wright? A character to say the least, but again, someone who is outspoken and unique with his views. While I tend to ignore overtly ignorant statements, I get that some people were justifiably upset by many of Wright’s comments.
And I guess I might as well say it: If you haven’t noticed, both of those people are black. There are many black people who are culturally outspoken and used to saying many things in their own circles that are regarded as unpatriotic or even racist in the public eye. But many white people do the same, so it’s not something I really take to heart.
Tony Resko? A scumbag who Obama happened to make a business deal with. I’m sure there are a lot of scumbag businessmen in Illinois, and every other state. It’s unfortunate that Obama associated with him, but Hillary has her own “scumbag associatesâ€, some of which were pretty close to her campaign. Let’s not throw stones.
Bill Ayers? He bombed a women’s bathroom in the 70’s. Like many other hippies who opposed the Vietnam war, he took it too far, but in his mind he was expressing his opinion in a just way. He was wrong fro it, but it happened when Obama was, like, eight years old. I really doubt he was on the playground saying “I really agree with that Ayers guyâ€. 30 some-odd years later, they served on a board together, a board in which the aim was to do good within the community. Regardless of Ayers’ actions in the past, he is obviously a man who cares about his country to try and do some good.
I think Obama is the kind of “hate the sin, not the sinner†Christian, and I like that about him. I get that you don’t like him, but just have an open mind to the frontrunner of our party. He might surprise you (in a good way) by the time November hits.
Josh:
“I’d imagine a small group of these people are racists who would never vote for a Black guy, but these types usually vote Republican (not insinuating anything here, don’t take it the wrong way).”
You seriously need to cut this sh!t out. I’m not saying I’m perfect but you need to stop with these broad insulting statements. But while were at it, what about all the people that are voting FOR Obama just because he’s black. Which is worse?
There is no difference between McCain, Obama, Clinton, Pelosi, Graham, Bush and Kennedy. Fools, look at how they all slept in the same anti 1st Amendment, anti 2nd Amendment, illegal alien amnesty and on and on anti American legislation. When are ignorant stupid Americans going to wake up and realize that in Washington DC there is only one party - Demorepublicrats.
Joyce,
“she did win…almost 18 million americans voted for her…don’t you understand…”
These types of arguments annoy me a little. Fully counting Michigan and not counting the caucus states distorts the facts. Both Hillary and Obama agreed to the punishment handed down by the Democratic party when Florida and Michigan cast their votes early. To go back after agreeing to those terms and count those votes (even when the other candidate wasn’t even on the ballot) just because they are losing is childish and should speak loads about that persons charater.
Michelle,
“I vote based on policy and character of the person. The person, not those who could be linked to him.”
Why wouldn’t you vote based partially on who is linked to him? I am not saying that these relationships should have the most bearing on who you should vote for, but they should at least be considered. Mrs. Obama is not running for president, you are right, but to blindly say that she has absolutely no influence on the person she is married to, the person who is running for president, is terribly naive. Also, unless Obama never went to church, to say that he was in there for 20 years and never heard a sermon consisting of racist and anti-racial cohesiveness (sorry just made the term up, but you get the idea) since it is evident that these types of sermons were rampant in that church is also naive. Further, to say that there wasn’t a part of him agreeing to those sermons since he apparetnly stayed in the church for 20 plus years without seeking out a more racially diverse church is even more naive. **DISCLAIMER** Again, this is assuming that he did go to church on a regular basis, and isn’t just associating with a church for purposes of appeasing the religious population.
I am not saying to base 100% of his character on the people he associates with. I am simply saying that we can not make an un-biased opinion on a persons character without having their associations be a part of the equation. Same goes for McCain in that matter.
Stalin,
“You seriously need to cut this sh!t out. I’m not saying I’m perfect but you need to stop with these broad insulting statements. But while were at it, what about all the people that are voting FOR Obama just because he’s black. Which is worse?”
How are you going to criticize and then turn around and do the same thing Josh just did? Both of you are right. Some people still live in the archaic age of judging a person based solely on their race, religion, or sex. It happens and it will continue to happen for as long as you or I live. Why are the statements insulting? Maybe they are emarrasing to us as a country, I can agree to that. You should really open your eyes and see the racism around you. Take a look at the man in central WV who still has to carry a shotgun behind the seat of his truck to protect himself from others that would do him harm because he is a successful business man who happens to be black. Or look at the mixed-race student in high school who failed a class while a white student in the same class who did the same quality work got an A simply because their teacher was a member of the KKK. Again, these issues are present and I do not see why they insult you rather then embarass us/our country as a whole because we simply choose to ignore it as you apparently do.
Josh,
“these people are racists who would never vote for a Black guy, but these types usually vote Republican (not insinuating anything here, don’t take it the wrong way).”
Do a little research. In past times, it was actually the Democratic party that were the most racist of the two parties.
A lot of people voted for Hillary because of who her husband is/was and the fact she’s a woman. Her policies are about 90%+ the same as Obama’s. A vote for Obama’s and his policies are a vote for Hillary’s policies.
From the clips I’ve seen on TV, most Hillary supporters who are saying they refuse to vote for Obama, seem to be either be racists or lesbians, but they could only be the type of people the news networks are showing.
If it’s a matter of trusting a candidate, then you can’t really go wrong with McCain…BUT…how much change is he willing to do to undo what Bush has done?
As for Obama being black, he isn’t, he’s as much white as he is black. So anyone who votes either for him or against him because of his skin colour really is a moron.
Odd how Hillary supporters are anti-Obama to such a high degree. I would think that individuals support candidates based on what the candidates stand for, and it’s plain that Obama and Hillary are more similar in terms of values and policies than either do with McCain.
I don’t see how someone can support Hillary and prefer McCain to Obama. To do so is a plain admission that their stance on politics isn’t driven by the core beliefs and policies of the candidates, but on the media-hyped non issues like Jeremiah Wright and 10 second sound bites of speech gaffs.
Then again, I suppose that, as a person with no real party or candidate affiliation, I just don’t understand the general mentality of a dedicated democrat or an avid Hillary supporter. Hopefully, that doesn’t make me a sexist.
Geez, Stalin, chill out…my only point was to try and define this group of people. To understand the mechanics of broad groups, we must look at them in a broad manner. There are probable plenty of people that are only voting for Obama because he is black, but at least they are still voting for a guy who represents their values, if they are democrats. To vote for McCain, if you are a democrate, is to vote for what amounts to a polar opposite of what most democrats stand for, especially at this point in time. As for most racists voting Republican, it’s true. All the racist groups, the neo-nazis, the kkk, these groups all vote Republican. Again, this doesn’t show that the Republican party is itself racist, just that these people tend to identify with Republican values, on some level anyway. Don’t be so sensitive, you’re a big boy now, Stalin.
Jeremy, while it is true that the Democratic party was historically more racist, in this day and age most racist (at least White ones) groups preach Republican values. Ask any KKK, neo-nazi, or other White Supremicist group what party they belong to, and they’ll likely tell you Republian. Take a look at the Republican congressional delegation. For all the elected officials the Republicans have in Washington, there is not one single black person. What does this tell you?
Just to throw in my 2 cents, Josh’s statement that democrats not voting for Obama are probably racist - this is something that has been slammed at these people all over the internet - I’ve seen it on the internet and on the evening news interviews. Where ever they’ve posted their feelings this is the major accusation that hits back at them, and FUELS THEIR FIRES EVEN MORE.
I’m an independent, and a southerner. I’m not voting for Obama because he’s GREEN. And from what I read, that’s the same reason the Hillary supporters are not backing him as well. They (and everyone) has a right NOT to pick a candidate on that basis alone.
Stalin is right, this argument has no validity at all. However, you have solid statistics to show the opposite. So be careful where you throw stones.
By the way, Michelle, kudos to you for checking out the Hillary site’s comments, now go to Obama’s - the hatred there for Hillary’s supporters is just as obvious. Like I said before, I don’t have a dog in this race but Obama’s attacks on this group of people are only going to push them on.
Babs, please read my original statement…
I said that some or them probably could be racist, but most are probably not. I wasn’t attempting to say that racism played anything more than a small, fringe role. What I said was it seemed to me that it’s more of a sore-loser mentality that will wear off as time goes on than racism, and now I’m being chastised for supposedly saying exactly the opposite. A few of them likely are racist, but that wasn’t my point.
“we’ll at least feel safe with McCain!!”
Joyce, please explain why you dont feel safe with Obama as president. Will he shutdown the FBI and CIA?
Babs,
i think that beceause the race was so long and exhausting people started to get annoyed by the other candidate. If Hillary or Obama had dropped out in februari then there wouldnt be so much tension between the two sides.
Josh, let me amend and say “Josh’s statement that SOME democrats not voting for Obama are probably racist”, it really was a typo. The point was that sentiment is being touted all over the internet as “all”. Wasn’t meaning to bite you on it.
Frank, you have a point in part. There is still a certain percentage that would have fallen away from the party and Obama because of his viewed inexperience, but you probably would not have seen it catch on as a movement.
Frank,
“I think that beceause the race was so long and exhausting people started to get annoyed by the other candidate. If Hillary or Obama had dropped out in februari then there wouldnt be so much tension between the two sides. ”
You hit the nail on the head. The race and accusations became more heated and hurtfull it seemed to each candidate as the race drew on and so the supporters became even more dug in. I also believe that we would not have this division had Hillary dropped out early in the race.
Dem. voters who vote McCain must be blind of anger. They don’t share his values, they are like suicide-kamikaze voters. It’s a childish and unintelligent reaction and it says there are a certain margin of hillary supporters which overtook her way of fighting till the bitter end. Ofcourse there are always those who don’t know when to quit…
I’m not so sure if this is a good thing for McCain, taking advantage of these voters. There are those who will reconsider and support Obama. But those who stay are not the most clever people I assume.
Jeremy,
What did I do to Josh? Why don’t you worry about yourself, he’s a big boy. How does my statement mean that I am ignoring racism? Try to stay on point, you went way overboard and made quite a few assumption about me that I don’t appreciate.
Josh,
I decided to say something because you have done this in the past. You are making a huge assumption based on what you see on TV. The KKK, neo-Nazis, ect are a very tiny percentage of the population, so for you to say that most racist vote Repubican is pretty ridiculous. There are many more racists that live anonymously. How do you know if they vote Republican or Democrat? This whole argument is ridiculous. There is a very easy way to resolve this…stop saying that racists vote Republican.
Frank,
Isnt it more racist that 90% of blacks vote for Obama because he is black over the small amount of racist voting for McCain.
“Frank,
Isnt it more racist that 90% of blacks vote for Obama because he is black over the small amount of racist voting for McCain”
Why are you asking me the question? I didnt say anything about it.
But i can answer it anyway if you want to
I think people who vote for a candidate for reasons other than policys shouldnt vote at all. Off course everybody has the right to vote.
But both McCain and Obama have had extreme persons surrounding them and both have made some statements wich where pulled completely out of context.
Thats why i want to debate about policys issues and candidates shuld be attacked for that. Thats also a reason that i cant understand Clinton fans switching sides to Obama. If im a Clinton fan and she endorses Obama, id vote for Obama and his (similar to Clinton) policys.
Stalin,
There were no specifics in your post so I assumed you were talking about another subject in Josh’s post, of people not voting for Obama because he is a black man. After I read your defense to Josh, I realize that you were talking about the Republican thing which I do agree with you on that point.
My apologies.
Sorry Frank, meant Josh haha
Stalin, it was a cheap shot by Josh, but I’ve met just a few flagrant racists in my time, but every one of them voted republican - and they wanted me to know it, too. To be fair, I think it had less to do with liking republican ideals, and more to do with finding democratic ones very distasteful.
And when you think about it, if you were the xenophobic sort, which primary would you rather vote in? The party where there were 3 races and both sexes represented among the top 4 contenders? Or the party of white males, where the only person running who didn’t fit that description, Alan Keyes, had to make a scene to get called on in the debates?
I think it only natural they’d find the latter less threatening.
Kind of off-topic but I have to wonder:
Ann Coulter is a Hillary supporter (on the grounds that McCain is too liberal for the GOP). Will she “fall in line” and endorse Obama, or will she suck it up and endorse McCain?
Jeremy,
“I am not saying to base 100% of his character on the people he associates with. I am simply saying that we can not make an un-biased opinion on a persons character without having their associations be a part of the equation. Same goes for McCain in that matter.â€
We are in agreement that you cannot establish his character based soley on his associates. I’m also glad you intend to hold McCain to those same standards. Perhaps I just feel some Hillary supporters aren’t doing that.
“Mrs. Obama is not running for president, you are right, but to blindly say that she has absolutely no influence on the person she is married to, the person who is running for president, is terribly naive.â€
Brutal! But okay, I’ll bite. I’m married, and I’ll tell you straight up, my husband is his own person and I have very little influence on his core values. He’s an atheist, I’m not. He likes his XBOX 360, I like to read. We still love and support each other through all endeavors, just as I’m sure Michelle Obama supports Barack but may have some thoughts and beliefs that are more boisterous than Obama holds.
“Also, unless Obama never went to church, to say that he was in there for 20 years and never heard a sermon consisting of racist and anti-racial cohesiveness (sorry just made the term up, but you get the idea) since it is evident that these types of sermons were rampant in that church is also naive. Further, to say that there wasn’t a part of him agreeing to those sermons since he apparently stayed in the church for 20 plus years without seeking out a more racially diverse church is even more naive. **DISCLAIMER** Again, this is assuming that he did go to church on a regular basis, and isn’t just associating with a church for purposes of appeasing the religious population.â€
I dunno man, I’m Catholic but I disagree with a lot of things the church has impressed upon me. I still went to church with my Mom, though. Also, if I didn’t mention it before, black people have a certain way of being very . . . different . . . with the way they express themselves. I’m not saying it’s right, but it’s incredibly difficult for Obama to speak out against the very culture is supposed to belong to. I believe him when he says that he’s heard a controversial thing or two, but I also believe he was not in church when the particular statements that were blown up in the media where said.
Babs,
I have been to Obama’s site, but I haven’t seen any such hatred, especially to the degree that I witnessed on Hillary’s site. But I usually centralize my blogging to “Missouri for Obamaâ€, “Environmentalists for Obamaâ€, and “Women for Obamaâ€. I don’t doubt that there are hateful bloggers out there, but I guess I haven’t paid enough attention. Do you have any examples for the site? I’m not trying to get you to prove your case to me, I’m just curious as to what I’ve been missing.
For this story is not so to say the entire truth, you have editors in the associated ress whom were die hard clinton supporters, she has done a great job in pursuayig her supporters to support the best candidate. For people who do not vote for hi they are to ignorant to advance and excell with todays generation and if some major marketing conducted a survey it would be people ho made an income level of about 12 k, to 60k a year to vote for mccain rather then to support Obama! Which will not help this country at all.
Indy,
I have been around both Republicans and Democrats who are racist. I have noticed that the Republicans will just throw out the N-word and not care who hears them. However, the Democrats tend to be more discreet as to not seem racist, but their words and actions prove otherwise. For example, we had a black family move onto our street and a Democrat down the street said “There goes the neighborhood.” I don’t know which is worse, but it is an American issue not a Republican or Democrat issue.
Michelle, yes, I found links to certain threads in the Obama forum when I was searching, and some that Hillary supporters provided “as proof” on some of the websites and blog posts. I’ll see if I can get some for you. I was honestly surprised that both sites didn’t pull the respective threads, since both candidates denounce that sort of thing all the time.
Also, look around the site here today, in this very thread even. There are several posts that slam this group calling them ignorant, etc. There’s no way I can’t believe the Hillary supporters on this, I’m seeing it right here on Youdecide today, and it’s ridiculous. Yahoo, I think, is the absolute worse, but I found that a lot of those Obama supporters were between the ages of 13-18, and also that that age group was the worst to slam them as racists. But if I hadn’t bothered to check the profiles on these kids, I wouldn’t have known they weren’t just rude adults. While Obama’s beginning his online war against rumors, I personally believe he should do come online censoring of some of his own supporters. They make him look extremely bad, as well as lend support to the racist accusation against him. After spending a week online reading this garbage on purpose, I think his larger problem isn’t the rumors, it’s his underaged fans.
Stalin, I was giving it some thought, and when I reconsider it I think there’s really just a different genre of racist that finds their home with the democrats, and I know exactly the sort you mean. Ah well, I guess they get around everywhere
I think several people have made some very good comments and insights into the ‘Hillary supporters dillemma.’ It’s obvious that one votes for a candidate based not only his or her policies, but also on the character of the candidate. Obama’s policies are, in fact, very similar to Hillary’s. He does lean a little more to the left than she does in some of his policies, but for the most part they were in agreement. In this regard, I can understand how most of the Clinton supporters would seemingly switch to Obama when she suspended her campaign. However, they were very much different in character. Obama’s inexperience and questionable associations does call into question his ability to lead and unite this country, thus making certain Clinton supporters fell more comfortable with McCain. I will be interested to see how many of Hillary’s followers will switch to McCain, although I believe that by November there won’t be all that many.
Stalin, I understand where you are coming from now, but it’s really a case of misunderstanding. I’ll try to clarify. We’re talking about a large group of people (Hillary supporters), so I have to think that a few of them base their decisions on their own inherant racism against Blacks. My point wasn’t to blame racism here, I was saying the exact opposite, that I don’t think racism played that big of a role. I wasnt’ trying to get a cheap shot either, or trying to say that Republicans are racist, and what I should have said is that I doubt most people that are racist against Blacks would vote Democrat anyway, if only because such a large part of the Democratic base is Black. On the other side of the coin, if a person hates Whites, it’s probably pretty unlikely that they will vote Republican. Again, please understand, my argument was that I doubt the role of racism in this case, and I said it because I was browsing a site just before that attributed the entire thing to Hillary supporters hating blacks. I don’t think that’s true at all, and I was just trying to justify that belief.
The bottom line is this: The purpose of the general election is to elect the candidate who will best represent the country and, hopefully, lead us into prosperity. This means that party lines are MEANT to be crossed if the electorate feels that one candidate is stronger than his/her opponents. Of course, Hillary’s supporters are free to choose any candidate they feel will be better for the country — regardless of party affiliation! I recognize the value of the party system in our society; however, it is incredible how many people are naive enough to beleive that any party’s candidate is the best MERELY because he/she is that party’s nominee. We now have the opportunity in this ridiculously long campaign season to spend time discerning which of the candidates/nominees best represents our interests. Personally, there is no candidate who stands for all that I believe and would hope for; however, each has his positive and negative attributes.
Regarding those who would promulgate having everyone “ignore” personally affiliations of those running for office: Affiliations are a very good indicator of what individuals feel strongly about. For example, Obama has been married to his wife for a couple decades; this tells me that they must share similar views and aspirations. Therefore, I would be inclined to believe that opinions expressed by Michelle Obama, Jeremiah Wrights, or anyone else with significant influence in Barrack’s life must be in line with Barrack’s points of view. I find it amusing that some would say, “Ignore these people; thery’re not Barrack,” while at the same time saying, “We love Hillary because she gained experience as Bill’s wife and First Lady.” Make up your minds, folks! Which is it? Does the viewpoint of the spouse have any bearing on the candidate or not?
Myself, I will see how the campaign season progresses and do my own research. My candidate selection will reflect my own views and not those of the pundits who want to try to sway me. What is most important is voting for the candidate you truly believe…NOT vote for who others say will be the winner.
hillary and mccain both sell themselves as the experienced candidate. obama has an edge with his “changing washington” message, and his refusal to measure experience as time in washington politics.
if people like the way washington has been running, then they probably voted for clinton, and might now vote mccain. their policies differ but they’re both old school washington.
change vs. experience was obama vs. clinton. it’s gonna be the same with mccain, and i predict with the same result.
I don’t think Hillary supporters are best serving Hillary in any way shape or form by acting the way that they are when Hillary has publically endorsed Obama and has said “Lets put a Democrat in The White House”. Surely if the Hillaryites were that loyal to Hillary, then they’d do what she’s asked and support Obama.
Indy and Josh,
I appreciate your candor. Let’s all enjoy this moment because we are actually getting along. Imagine if congress could do the same…
I feel that this election will say a lot about American politics and the make-up of voting groups and demographics. In most elections, the Vice President selection does not play a major role in the outcome of the election. This year will be different. Both McCain and Obama need to think long and hard about their VP choice because it could be the deciding factor.
This election will be just as close as the 2004 election and half of the country will feel like they have been cheated. It is unfortunate that the country is so divided but when there is a War there will always be this divide. In a bi-partisan system you will ALWAYS have crazies on both sides. It makes it frusterating to be a moderate Democrat or moderate Republican who is left feeling embarrassed by their fellow citizens.
The bottom line is we are heading the wrong direction right now and we need change. I personally am voting for Obama for a variety of reasons that I don’t need to explain. I feel the war is hindering our government from taking care of problems at home.
Vote your mind 2008. All bigotry will come out in the voting booth regardless of what is said on message boards, the media, or youtube. You can’t argue with people who won’t vote for a Black person or won’t vote for a woman. If you truly want to help your candidate, push the issues. Racism, sexism, and ageism is buried in a persons upbringing and fighting it will only enrage these individuals.
Get out the vote. And may the best candidate win.
~Tyler, MI
I often sit back and read these things, some make me extremely upset and some make me laugh, I have to first off start off by saying how happy I am that this site is neutral and you all aren’t attacting one another.
My Grandmother taught me at a young age that it is imperative to come together and talk things out. So I want to start this particular insert off by saying “Let’s agree to disagree; America is in a horrible state right now.” I hope we can all agree on that, and in the end elect the candidate who has the best interest for America at hand; like the war, the economy, and healthcare.
Obama 08
“If you don’t stand for something you’ll fall for anything.” I want to say to all the Hillary supporters I completely understand why you are angry that Hillary didn’t get the nomination. She was the most experienced, but it wasn’t super delegates nor the DNC that decided this race, they only went with the person who had the most pledged delegates. So to the people that are saying it was biased and that sexism played a key role in Hillary not getting the nomintation don’t really have a compelling argument. She didn’t think or look beyond Super Tuesday because in their eyes they were unbeatable. If superdelegates hadn’t had a say in this process at all he still would have won because he had more delegates. A lot of Hillary supporters were saying that it is a superdelegates job to decide who they feel is a better and stronger candidate in the fall. I don’t feel that this argument helped their case at all becuase Obama had the momentum, the money, and in the end the most delegates. So I think that with that all being said that should stop the constant bickering within the democratic party.
I personally believe, and I hope noone attacks me for this, but I think that McCain is really nuts. He wants to fight a war that wasn’t a good idea and isn’t beneficial to America at all. He swaers that is was a good idea, and he wants to spead the rest of his life, not really sure how long that is, in Iraq. He talks about Obama being naive for wanting to sit down and compromise, but that is the only way to honestly get things done. We are hated here in America because we are arrogant and because we don’t care about other countries. Do I know everyother countries capitol or year of declared independence no, and do I care not really, but I bet they know everything there is to know and should know about use. I’m not saying that we should give terrorists the time of the day, but it gives us a better image as the big sister nation to be willing to sit and compromise in a diplomatic way. McCain claims that he honors the men that have died for our country, but all to often he diminishes their deaths. I believe that he does this everytime he says to withdraw is to surrendor.
A lot of times we like to have this image for our political figures that image is that they should be perfect individuals, with no problems at all. Well sorry to say this everyone, but we are all humans and as humans we make mistakes. So this particular passage is for the individuals who have fed into the media and all of her lies, everyone has skeletons in their closet no one is perfect. I think that personally Obama is new to the national scene and new dirt to them is gold and oil they need new things to talk about so they’ve jumped on him, Hillary and McCain’s dirty laundry has already been aired.
I want to also briefly address the Rev. Wright and Mrs. Obama scandals. Rev. Wright is an older black man who grew up in a time when blacks didn’t recieve any respect at all because they were black. Do any of you know what its like to have to go to the back of a bus, drink from a drinking fountain that a persons dog just drank from, or have you all been hosed down with a water hose becuase you believe that you have the same rights as everyone else? Unless your his age or older you don’t know what its like. This age group of individuals have anamosity towards each other, one becuase they sought out equal opportunity, the other becuase they got it. I don’t agree with Rev. Wright using the pulpit to show his anger, and I don’t like the fact that the congregation reacted the way they did when he spoke. Now hopefully when my generation takes over all of this will have ceased and it will be dead and gone, but I disagree with the media trying to make it seem like one race is doing it when the other has done it all along.
Mrs. Obama’s comment, “For the first time in a long time i’m proud of my country.” I agree with out current First Lady, a very smart and beautiful woman who speaks consistent knowledge and one who is very smart but laid back at the same time, she believes that Michelle meant “Very Proud.”
Victor Draine
Please if your going to respond to any of the comments I made please do it in a dignified manor, and act like the adult that we all are or should be. Don’t make me have to take my first comments back.
You know, it surprises me how far off most are on why the elections have turne dout like they have. I’ll try and lay it down to you as best I can. People as individuals are intelligent. People as groups are dumb. Groups are easily persuaded by the opinions of others. Individuals are not, they tend to stand by thier own personal convictions. This is in and of itself the single biggest reasonw hy our country is the way it is today, because as groups we let ourselves get persuaded into “schools” of thought rather than individual thinking and we continually vote idiots into office who do absolutely nothing. The Democratic Party controlled congress and senate are proof of this. These morons sat around wasting time chasing Bush, who we already know was a complete moron…when they could have been making the necessary changes we need such as showing up to vote on important bills and not trying to pork barrel every damn thing that comes across the table. That doesn’t happen unfortunately,we have dumbed ourselves down into allowing crooked politicians to sink our country to the point we have subsidized our economy out to other countries for cheap slave labor. We vote for ignorant purposes such as race and religion rather than policy and poise. We vote for associations, rather than the person who’s associations we are so interested in. You see, that’s media influence right there. It’s entertainment. Political entertainment. We lost our way, it’s up to us to find it, the dipsticks we put in charge sure won’t. We have the power of the vote to vote any political leader in our country out of office with a vote of NO CONFIDENCE. Yet we do not. We suffer thier full terms and do nothing. We have become a do nothing society. This is the reason why we are where were are. We became irresponsible and allowed our politicians to become irresponsible more than they have ever been and we have not held them accountable for it. It’s in my opinion we probably haven’t held them accountable for it because we have not yet held ourselves accountable first.
For those of you who want to change to occur in America, Make your individual voice heard, let your politicians know you can’t take anymore voting on bills and policies just for the sake of party lines, rather than the issues at hand. This is 3rd grad elementary school behavior. Write the major media outlets and let them know who stupid they are for giving voices to the likes of Muqtada Al Sadr, Akmadinejad, and the likes, which further fuels this war. This war would have long been over had the media not furthered it by lending voices to those who never should have had one. While I agree all should be heard, I would also agree some should just shut up. And we should not listen. I strongly feel the media is just as much responsible as the idiots in congress, senate, and the whitehouse. Take back your sense of indiviual pride and vote for the right reasons, not somebody elses.
Wow, your name accurately reflects your attitude. I agree with some of the points that you make in your statements, but not your arguments.
“People as individuals are intelligent. People as groups are dumb. Groups are easily persuaded by the opinions of others. Individuals are not, they tend to stand by thier own personal convictions. This is in and of itself the single biggest reasonw hy our country is the way it is today, because as groups we let ourselves get persuaded into “schools†of thought rather than individual thinking and we continually vote idiots into office who do absolutely nothing. The Democratic Party controlled congress and senate are proof of this.”
I would argue that not all people are that intelligent. But it is irrational for you to say that when intelligent people form groups they turn into big groups of dumb people, and then that they go vote for some ignoramus to fill a public office. People vote as individuals, not as groups. However I would agree that there are very intelligent people that are part of and lead movements to pursuade others to vote a certain way, and that there are some dumb people who get caught up in such movement and vote the way they are influenced. I do not believe, however, that they majority of Americans are those who just follow and vote they way they’re “told.”
As to the importance of influencing others. I believe that we should let people try and influence our way of thought. It provokes one to either defend his/her way of thinking and counter the persuasive arguments with reasons founded in fact and beliefs, or to seriously consider flaws in one’s way of thinking and to change them to a better view. I watch the media, debates between candidates, and listen to and read other’s views with that express purpose: to be influenced to change my way of thinking, or to consider and reject a certain viewpoint, thus further strengthening my original point of view.
A person’s associations should be taken seriously because of that very point: by associating closely with that person they are influenced by their way of thinking. I would not stay closely associated with and proclaim that a person had a profound influence upon my life, if in fact I did not agree with that person’s views and ideals. This is why Obama’s association (for twenty years) with Rev. Wright is to be taken and considered seriously.
“We have the power of the vote to vote any political leader in our country out of office with a vote of NO CONFIDENCE. Yet we do not. We suffer thier full terms and do nothing. We have become a do nothing society.”
This is an intersting point that I had not really considered before. I will have to research how one goes about doing this.
“This war would have long been over had the media not furthered it by lending voices to those who never should have had one. While I agree all should be heard, I would also agree some should just shut up. And we should not listen.”
Okay, that’s just being hypocritical. How can you say that all should be heard and in the same breath declare that some should just “shut up” and that we should not listen? All should be and have the right to express their opinions. But, simply put, we should only let those opinions founded in truth and reason influence us.
That last response was to “The Angry American” Sorry it’s so long, sometimes I can get a bit wordy.
I am not American but The Best answer for those DEMOCRATS who think they’ll not vote for Obama because Hillary lost, to form their own Party-The HillaryClinton Party.
They should look at America through the elected and not look at the elected through America.If I were so enthusiastic about Clinton and wouldn’t want to vote for Obama as a Democrat,I will not even vote neither candidate in November.If they were Democrats because of Clinton, then they are free to switch their tails.But if the believe in the core values of the Democratic Party the will remain Democrats even with ought voting for the Democratic presumed nominee.Point.Salut.
Victor Draine,
“Rev. Wright is an older black man who grew up in a time when blacks didn’t receive any respect at all because they were black. Do any of you know what it’s like to have to go to the back of a bus, drink from a drinking fountain that a person’s dog just drank from, or have you all been hosed down with a water hose because you believe that you have the same rights as everyone else? Unless your his age or older you don’t know what it’s like. This age group of individuals have animosity towards each other, one because they sought out equal opportunity, the other because they got it. I don’t agree with Rev. Wright using the pulpit to show his anger, and I don’t like the fact that the congregation reacted the way they did when he spoke. Now hopefully when my generation takes over all of this will have ceased and it will be dead and gone, but I disagree with the media trying to make it seem like one race is doing it when the other has done it all along.”
You are forgetting the whole point between Obama and Wright. We are not attacking Wright in his obvious racist attitude; we are citing Obama’s relationship to Wright. Twenty years of going to a church lead by a pastor that is obviously using his position to preach his anti-white views on multiple occasions is a problem. Obama should have sought out other churches that align more with what he ’says’ he believes in. If he did not, then we are left with the assumption that Obama in some part agreed with his pastors teachings.
Now, your defense of Wright in his old age is another story. Racism will always be around as long as the majority of the population ‘accept and ignore’ it, which is exactly what you are proposing. Soon, once all of the ‘oldies’ die, it will be accepted that those that were raised by these ‘oldies with racist ideals’ be racist, and we as a nation will ‘accept and ignore’ that sect for yet another generation. There has to be a time to unconditionally speak out against racism and deny those that teach it to the next generation positions in which they can teach it and that time was at least 10 years ago.
Finally, please do not preface your statement by congratulating us on our maturity and ability to have a conversation without blowing up, and then negate that congratulation at the end of your post by assuming that we will and asking us not to.
Michelle,
“I dunno man, I’m Catholic but I disagree with a lot of things the church has impressed upon me. I still went to church with my Mom, though.”
Obama wasn’t going to church just because his mom pulled him along. He was going as an adult.
“Also, if I didn’t mention it before, black people have a certain way of being very . . . different . . . with the way they express themselves. I’m not saying it’s right, but it’s incredibly difficult for Obama to speak out against the very culture is supposed to belong to.”
This is a borderline racist remark as you are generalizing the entire black community. It is also an incorrect statement because there are definitely an abundance of black churches out there that do not preach racist ideals.
“I believe him when he says that he’s heard a controversial thing or two, but I also believe he was not in church when the particular statements that were blown up in the media where said.”
I also believe that he was not at church the day those remarks were made, but given the score card of that churches sermons, I do not doubt that there were other sermons of the same kind. It is with this that I take one of my problems with Obama. Unless he never went to church, he would have heard these types of sermons and if he does strongly believe in the ideals that he teaches today while running for president, he should have found it unacceptable and move to a different church.
I think anything can happen . . .
Both parties are hopelessly divided–both conventions are not going to be pretty scenes, it looks like. I don’t know where that will lead.
I really think that the accusations of sexism are ridiculous. Those supporters are just looking for an excuse to not back Obama. And that’s the easiest one to pull. Because many women support Obama’s stances on issues, they can’t say they disagree with him. Especially since Hillary was almost identical in those stances. They can’t say they aren’t voting for him because he’s black, because that’s racism. So, they turn to the cheapest card in the deck, their sex. It was the will of the people that Barack Obama become the democratic nominee. If you would rather see another Republican in the White House rather than a Democrat with the same basic stances on most of the issues, then you’re just being bitter. Hillary lost. It’s over. Let’s move on and unite the Democratic Party to a Blue November!
I agree with you that the accusations of sexism are offbase, because I’ve found just as many men that are also not backing Obama and were backing Hillary. I find it disturbing, though, to hear once again an inference to the race card in reference to these voters. Not to mention the “bitter” card. I think we’re all tired of that one.
There are many differences in Obama and Hillary concerning character and ideals, and many people base their votes on just those things.
You’re half correct, it was the will of half the people that Obama become the democratic nominee, with the help of a biased media and some well placed donations to super delegates, IMHO. Whether or not the Democratic Party will unite behind the Obama movement will be interesting to watch from the sidelines.
Looks like the Hate groups numbers are going up rapidly
http://www.washingtonpost.....01471.html
That’s disgusting, isn’t it Dreadsen, and I don’t believe for one minute that these groups are seeing such increases. Besides being racists, their liars.
But by the Washington Post giving it an audience I’m sure we’ll see increased numbers NOW. Sometimes the media just doesn’t act responsibly.
Now having said that, I can understand one thing about this issue. “Black power”, like the Panthers and such groups tout - (even that list of points from Trinity that touted “black” everything) seems to be socially ok to say. But the minute you say “”white pride world wide” it’s automatically labeled racist. That one single thing - and it’s the only thing - I do think is wrong about the situation. Both races have pride, and if its ok for blacks to label their pride as black pride, it should be ok for whites to label theirs the same. If that’s racist, then both sides should be rejected for it.
Us whites don’t really have a race, it’s sort of like a society of the status quo. I recall in my college days we had a celtic club and even an Irish student union - perfectly fine celebration of white culture. I think the ISU was shut down for spending SGA funds to buy beer, but that was valid. The celtic club got to buy kilts and bagpipes. I think there might have been an Italian club too, although I wouldn’t swear to it.
Of course Irish and Italians haven’t been white for very long, historically speaking. Maybe that’s why those cultures still get to retain some sense of cultural heritage. But just “white” as in “from caucasia”? I don’t think there’s one united culture for that. We’ve got a variety of cultures / subcultures that have formed in America, and there’s nothing wrong with being proud to be an American. But specifically a White American? That seems kind of silly.
Why not be more specific about your heritage than “European”? Europe is just such a varied place.
Anyway, I don’t think people are upset by any celebration of white culture, where it’s a specific culture being celebrated. But if you don’t specify what culture you ARE celebrating, a celebration of being white seems almost like a purposeful exclusion of those cultures who don’t happen to have pale skin.
There’s reason for people to be sensitive to that too, not just because America has historically discriminated against people with dark skin, but because across the world in nations where people have darker skin tones, light skin tone is a highly valued trait (albinos being the exception).
So for America, perhaps the most diverse nation in the world, to celebrate it - well that could almost be mistaken for a celebration of discrimination and oppression worldwide, historic and current. We are, after all, the world’s role model.
See ya democrats, I’m switching parties and will be fully supporting the lesser of 2 evils. That is John McCain. At least McCain has the experience and the history of reaching across the aisle, working with Dems, Republicans, and Indy’s to get the job done. I think he will actually end the war the right way in his 4 years. Also, in his 4 years, i believe his energy policy will get us going in the right direction. It takes time to change an entire country’s energy backbone. I encourage him to spend more on solar, wind and wave technologies. I believe he should triple the amount of money in his energy plan for these alternative energies, and he should scale back the number of proposed new nuclear power plants. But put it this way, he has 4 years. Then Hillary will take over and guide the country further in the right direction. McCain will make a good transition president before Hillary gets in there. Obama will just screw it all up even more than what we are left with today.
Thanks for posting, Bill. It made for interesting reading to go back through this old thread where most thought Hillary supporters were going to “fall in line” with Obama. It’s two months later, and the Dems for McCain movement is just that much stronger. It will be another 1980 all over again, mark my words.