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Here is the entire 27 minute speech delivered by Barack Obama declaring himself the Democratic Party’s nominee and speaking about moving forward into the general election versus John McCain. At this point, it appears as though it will not be fruitful for Hillary Clinton to continue pursuing the nomination using superdelegates.
The full video of Obama’s speech from St. Paul, Minnesota at the same arena in which the Republican convention will be held:
Story from Yahoo News:
ST. PAUL, Minn. - Barack Obama claimed the Democratic presidential nomination in a long-time-coming victory speech Tuesday that taunted Republicans on their own turf and reached out to heal Democratic wounds with lofty praise for his rival.
“Let us begin the work together,” Obama exhorted thousands of cheering supporters in a packed sports arena. “Let us unite in common effort to chart a new course for America.”
Speaking in the same arena that will host the Republican nominating convention in early September, Obama said the long, hard primary campaign, now finally ended, should help steel a deeply divided party to do more effective battle against Republicans and their candidate, John McCain.
“Senator Hillary Clinton has made history in this campaign not just because she’s a woman who has done what no woman has done before, but because she’s a leader who inspires millions of Americans with her strength, her courage, and her commitment to the causes that brought us here tonight,” Obama said.
“Our party and our country are better off because of her, and I am a better candidate for having had the honor to compete” with her, he said.
Obama called Clinton to congratulate her on the South Dakota win and got her voicemail, according to aides. He asked Clinton to call him back.
Speculation spread over whether he would invite her to share the ticket as his running mate, and Clinton only encouraged it. But Obama aides tied to tamp down such talk.
So it begins.. the general election is now upon us in the coming months..
(7 votes, average: 3 out of 5)
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he better watch how much he truly wants to poke at McCain, like he did all throughout this speech, and I do not believe it is a smart idea, coming from a man who says “lets not play attack politics, for I am hear to change washington” well Barack you are the one attacking while your opponent takes his campaign in a humble and respectable way.
I think you’re seeing the contest through biased lenses if you think that the attacks are all coming from one side O_S.
But personally I took heart to hear him taking a more respectful note tonight than in the last few weeks. What did you take offense to tonight? I thought this was an excellent tenor to begin the general election on, and he took a fairly respectful tone towards McCain, keeping his criticisms to policy, and I thought they were reasonable criticisms.
Even when mentioning the notorious “100 years” comment, it was in legitimate criticism of what McCain had actually been saying. I didn’t hear much in the way of angry rhetoric or cheap shots tonight.
A born leader can be obstructed but not denied. Obama’s nomination was long overdue. I’ll only thank the entire American people for their courage. The unity of America under the Democratic Party and leadership of Barack Obama will enhance positive change and bring peace in the world.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
OS, you should check out the clip a few stories back that has McCain’s speech posted. Both candidates are pretty much the same in respect to speaking about the issues.
Also, I didn’t take both McCain’s and Obama’s ‘No Attack Politics’ policy as not being able to debate anything that they disagree on. I took it to mean that they would not bring up the idiotic things in each candidates past that may very remotely link them to some controversial person, place, or thing. The Bush/Kerry swift boat crap in 2004 is one such attack that they are refraining from.
Great speech from Obama as usual. OS, you must really, really, really hate Obama huh? It seems like he could say that the sun is hot and ice is cold but you would find some fault with it. It is possible to attack someone’s policy without attacking them personally. So far both candidates have done that.
Anyway I am looking forward to the debates. I hope they decide on doing the town hall type debates without a moderator. We may finally get some wonky meaningful policy discussion. It is a good time for politics in the US.
I wanted to see how many time he would exploit the word children. I am surprised by his restraint.
“When we… and lift our children out of poverty…”
“…and left our children with a mountain of debt.”
“We can’t afford to leave the money behind for ‘no child left behind’. That we owe it to our children to invest in early childhood education.”
“…and the future for our children”
“The children who braved…”
“To leave their children a world that’s better.”
“We will be able to look back and tell our children…”
I may have missed a few, but you get the idea.
Regarding his few policy statements. Socialized government require vast sums of money. Ideals and ‘Change!’ are easy to speak about, but where does the money come from?
Most socialist counties have an income tax for individuals of over forty percent as well as high taxes on every aspect of business. The government providing for you is not a one way street. there is no way around this fact.
Obama only insulted McCain personally five or six times. What bothered me wasn’t the insults themselves, but how the crowd reacted. They loved when he got personal.
“What you wont hear from this campaign or this party is the kind of party that uses… or patriotism as a bludgeon… …because we may call ourselves democrats and republicans, but we are Americans first. We are always Americans first!”
The implication is obvious and hypocritical.
Well, I opted for reading the transcript of the speech this morning, and bdjnk, here’s one of the hypocritical things that struck me in it:
“John McCain has spent a lot of time talking about trips to Iraq in the last few weeks, but maybe if he spent some time taking trips to the cities and towns that have been hardest hit by this economy……..he’d understand the kind of change that people are looking for.” And he goes on to site sad plights of individuals that probably do not exist.
The funny thing about this statement is that it was John McCain who began his campaign with small town hall meetings on his “Straight Talk Express”, talking with individuals all over the country. And it was Obama who saw the merits of that and COPIED his strategy, turning away from the big auditoriums with the fainting plants to embrace the town hall gig that was working for McCain. Hypocritical statement? You bet. True? No way.
Concerning his nomination, this is my favorite line:
“… this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal…”
*ROFL* Boy, he thinks a lot of himself. “Don’t tell me words don’t matter”.
To be hypocritical, wouldn’t he have had to say that someone (McCain, Republican Party, etc.) is “unpatriotic” or question their love for country??? He challenged the use of anti-patriotic name-calling and then called memebers of both parties American: The implication is obvious, but not hypocritical.
Previous post is in response to bdjnk –
The “… this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal…†part actually made me laugh, this guy really thinks he’s Martin Luther King. Obama, the seas have been rising since the last cooling down era in the 1700’s pal.
Obama is a fraud and I will bet the farm, McCain will expose him for everything that Obama doesn’t know and has no experience dealing with. Obama will lose the debates. He will lose the election.
There will be no Hillary/Obama ticket, to really establish himself he has to seperate himself from her first. He knows that which was why we straight to attacking McCain after giving the typical “my opposing competition did well ” speach.
What gets me the most was for the most part the speach was empty in its entirety. He spoke of changint “it” with no definition what “it” was. He offered to take care of the sick and give jobs to the homeless….. last time I checked Obama wasn’t the Messiah. Somebody should let em know we’re only at 5% unemployment, which for a company would mean full employment. I don’t see how Obama would think we haven’t taken care of our sick in the past to the point we need tos tart take caring of them now instead, what kinda of empty statement was that?
Yet the people bought into it. People don’t want change, they want entertainment. hence Obama’s popularity, he’s entertaining but the boat stops there.
FYI Know this and know it well, you cannot question Barrack Hussein Obama about his race, his religion or his middle name, elsewise you are a hate and fear mongering racist focusing on the wrong issue and you are “more of the same”
But Obama can call us white. Michelle Obama can be proud of her country for the first time. And Barrack Obama says now is the time for “our people”. Just ask his racist typicaly white grandmother.
I’m not sure any of those three things are issues he should be questioned on. I don’t know that John McCain or George Bush are questioned on their ethnicity or any other Caucasian nominee for that matter, again a non-issue. As for religion the only question that merits any entertainment should be how his beliefs help him shape policy. Lastly, his middle name is not relevant to the conversation and is obviously used to incite prejudice.
These are old issues I won’t revisit except to say that his middle name can’t be considered irrelevant. Just by virtue of it being taboo to utter it makes it relevant. Nothing in a name should be taboo.
This is a sad day for the USA to see how far the democrats went, yes both parties are not what they used to be, but going this far to nominate such an inexperienced extreme socialist liberal with such an hateful background from sitting in the church he attended 20 years, his association with Bill Ayers (who’s group bombed the pentagon between others in protest of the Vietnam war) to not wearing the American flag to not intimidate other countries and everything in between… come to think about the first lady (won’t say her name Obama gets very upset when you analyze or just remind his wife politically…) he will bring with him, that said she never before felt proud as an American until recently…my god this is sad and scary…I don’t blame republicans for labeling these liberals unpatriotic and anti American, it’s in their own words and deeds… don’t tell me they like America but not the way it’s run, the republicans always stayed patriotic even if they hated the way the country was being led by liberals like Jimmy Carter and democrats like Bill Clinton, they we’re always proud with America and it’s fundamentals! I am frightened to think about the other people he will bring to the white house, he’ll create a new America that he and his wife (and pastors)could be proud of… I can hardly wait to see these debates when (hopefully) McCain will take off his glove and put this propagandist in place…let this be over already!
January 2008, John McCain autographed a flag for a supporter at a January rally in Keene, N.H. This violates the Flag Code.
In July 2003 President Bush autographed a small flag. A picture was circulated across the Internet noting its violation of the Flag Code.
Flag Code: “The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.”
You can find the photos if you want to see them:
Flag signed by McCain -
Photo credit: Stephen Crowley/The New York Times
Reference: NY Times
Bush signing flag -
Photo credit: AP Photo/Charles Dharapak
Whobody, thanks for introducing me to the flag code and making me look it up, I learned something!
Ҥ171. Conduct during playing (of the National Anthem)
During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there. ”
I also found this, which might upset some candidates using the flag on their buttons and such I imagine:
“(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever….”
These codes are all interesting, and I noticed that the President and the Secretary of Defense seems to have some discretionary powers to amend them at will. That doesn’t seem quite fair, does it?
American flags on napkins, plates, food, and anything that is discarded is violation of the code. Any form of advertisement using the flag is a violation.
Section 8i of the Flag Code reads: “It should not be … printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard.”
President Bush was once a recipient of an American flag icing cake.
Any t-shirt or hat or anything with the American flag is to be treated with all the same respects of an actual flag.
Holding a flag horizontally (like they do before football games and such) is a violation.
Ask yourself if you’ve been in violation of your own American Flag. So much of the vanity materials are a discrace to the flag instead of a proud display of it.
We should all educate ourselves on what is truly American patriotism at its core.
Not just with flags, but with policies and issues we choose to support and not support.
———————————–
“Any who act as if freedom’s defenses are to be found in SUPPRESSION and SUSPICION and FEAR confess a doctrine that is alien to America.”
— Dwight D. Eisenhower
(1953)
WHOBODY, whar is your point with this idiotic flag code.
Angry American, you make great points and I seem to agree with you on everything you say.
“inexperienced extreme socialist liberal with such an hateful background from sitting in the church he attended 20 years
Realist, Oh my god, you have won the 1st price on the must dumbest sentence ever to be placed on this website.
It you really believe in the things you typed you dont know nothing about Obama and what he stands for.
You liked the extreme dumb, shortsighted, right wing, relgious, unqualified George Bush. He failed. No give a guy with brains a chance.
Let me guess, in your opinion McCain is a bad choise also, i am right?
Another question, if Obama is so dangerous, why do the EDUCATED people vote for him?
Corrections
‘NoW give a guy with brains a chance’
‘am i right?’
Just because you are educated doesn’t give you street smarts or common sense.
Hillary is a bad choice because she is simply more of the same old washington vangaurd, hence no change in the direction of the country.
Obama is a bad choice because like Hillary he believes in socialized medicine and other socialist views. Social medicine doesn’t work. I refer you to England. Socialized medicine leads to crappier medical practice, longer waits, and fewer doctors in practice. It also creats higher taxes as we would have to pay for those who can’t pay for themselves. Where do you think all the money is going to come from to pay for any socialized programs?
McCain is a bad choice because he is economics stupid and has admitted as much even though he has contradicted himself since and says he has economic knowledge.
All in all, it’s a matter of choosing the lesser of 3 evils and in my mind that would be McCain. Obama has no experience, Hillary is a proven liar, and the one thing I think McCain has above the others is his integrity is in better shape. I feel like I can trust McCain while I may not agree with some of his policies, I don’t feel that way with Obama or Hillary. She re-writes her own history according to her own account and Obama denies his and plays them off as non-issues.
As for OBJB, Obama isn’t questioned on the issues of his race, name, or religion, you missed the point, and none of which is irrelevant as you claim, it’s all relevant. Obama SHOULD be question on his religion, he sat in a church for 20 years listening to a pastor that preaches black liberation theology. To break that down it means he preaches from the standpoint of a repressed people that are not repressed. If his preacher is mixing church with politics, it’s definitely an issue!
O_S -
You just prove the point:
You will sit and rant about a flag lapel pin, but you call the American Flag Code “idiotic.”
Frank You say,
“You liked the extreme dumb, shortsighted, right wing, relgious, unqualified George Bush. He failed.”
Maybe in your mind he is all those, but in George Bush i see a man of honesty, integrity, and strength, Someone who has never backed down from a decision he has made and has not faltered in those decisions. Now he has not been the best president in many ways, but I firmly believe Kerry or Gore would have been worse, for the economy and dealing with 9/11 and our war on terror. In my eyes George Bush has not failed. He has kept the GDP plus every time in all the years of his presidency. He has kept unemployment at 5% or less to, and has always giving money to those in need and given help and assistance to all countries. So going back to Obama speech about how for the first time we will care for the sick and the unemployed, That is a lie, we have been doing that for the past 8 years and have been doing that since 1776.
“If Obama is so dangerous, why do the EDUCATED people vote for him?” - Frank
My brother (the one who is in the military for those who may recall a previous post I made) is studying law at the University of Florida, and I would consider him very well educated.
He also supports Obama and believes in his delusive rhetoric and grandiose statements.
Most people have a misconception that an American education make you less gullible and more perceptive. This has no basis in reality. All that you really gain is knowledge and certain knowledge gathering and presentation skills.
There are ways of learning to recognize deceit and analyze statements for logical consistency. In the American education system these sorts of abilities are worse then useless and are in fact generally discouraged. Most teachers dislike the type of student who questions the veracity of what they teach, and students who learn without any skepticisms are prized.
Knowledge is no protection against the forces of misinformation and lies without the skills of logical analysis and a healthy dose of skepticism.
Finally, as an example. Most members of the Heaven’s Gate cult were well educated and many had collage degrees.
TAA -
In Obama’a health care plan as I understand it, he would retain the private insurance system, but his plan would help those who couldn’t afford coverage through subsidies based on a sliding scale of their income.
His plan would try to lower the costs of insurance through increased insurance competition, eliminating inefficiencies in the health system, having the federal government pick up part of the high costs of catastrophic coverage, driving down the costs of drugs and promoting preventive measures as well as better management of chronic illnesses.
In paying for it, he’s proposed before paying in part by using the tax revenue that would be recouped if President Bush’s tax cuts expired. So yea, higher taxes for the upper brackets.
“His (Obama’s) campaign released estimates that an additional $50 billion to $65 billion in revenue would be needed, releasing research by the Urban/Brookings Tax Policy Center on how the money could raised through imposing higher taxes on people in the top income brackets.” — From The New York Times
Frank, O_S is right, don’t try to say that Obama is a Messiah we’ve never had the benefit of. He is a mortal, I promise you. And the US has been the most generous country in the world, even to your country, than any other since her inception in 1776. For you to sit comfortably in the Netherlands under your monarchy and condemn people here for their opinions - people who’s lives are directly affected by this election, unlike you - is wrong. If they are educated or uneducated, it makes no difference. We are Americans, and this election counts for us. You’re a bystander. Tread softly.
I was raising the educated point beceause everyone here is saying that hes just a guy with empty rethoric and that people like him for his entertainment.
Wouldnt educated (or steetwise) people see through that?
I like Hillary alot and i even like McCain a lot. And thats why i thought we where debating about three candidates that would change course from George Bush.
I thought we had all agreed that Bush his policys have failed. Apperently there are still people who think otherwise.
Obama_Sucks,
You say that Bush has done many great things. You know what Bush has done? He created the biggest budget deficits since world war 2. The US is constantly loaning money from China.
These arent opinions, these are facts.
The next generations will have to work extra hard to pay of the debt thats he has created.
My god, the guy allowed torture.
How can you say that he has been a man honesty, integrity, and strength.
Obama, Clinton and McCain (except for his foreign policy jugment) are great persons. Bush is the worst president there ever was. (that last statement, was an opinion :-))
Babs,
Since americas economy effects the whole world and it spents billions on defence, this election also counts for all the other countrys in the world.
I only condemn people who have blind hate for Obama and have blind love for the worst president ever.
For the Bush fans,
From the republican debate, a question from Tim Russert. Listen to the numbers hes quoting. It starts at 1.11
Frank, it might occur to you that people’s hate for Obama and their love for Bush is not “blind”. It’s based on their own political beliefs, and they’re entitled to that. And you’re entitled to disagree, but not to condemn.
For example, you said:
“I was raising the educated point beceause everyone here is saying that hes just a guy with empty rethoric and that people like him for his entertainment.
Wouldnt educated (or steetwise) people see through that? ”
Frank, some of us see through that, alright, but what we see through IS his empty rhetoric. And you have no proof that it ISN’T empty rhetoric, because he has no track record to prove it.
I don’t know of anyone here, by the way, who has a blind hate for Obama. A healthy opposition to him as a potential President, yes, a blind hate, no. I would contend that you may be the one just a tad nearsighted here.
As for Bush, the day we all watched on TV as they pulled down the grand statue in Bagdad of Suddam Hussein, Bush’s approval rating was around 83%, as I recall. Bush is not all bad, has never been. We need a change yes, but Presidents in a democracy can have failures without being a failure. Worst president we ever had? I think not.
Yes, Americas economy does affect the whole world. We spend money on things we shouldn’t. We buy things from countries we shouldn’t. We’re the biggest importer of a product from your country, as a matter of fact, according to the CIA reports. The product is called ecstacy, and its killing citizens in our country every day. Do you think smuggling illegal drugs into America is right, Fran?
Babs,
One real reason we need John McCain(which i wish he spoke more of) is because he has always cut spending and rules out all the dumb pork projects. Look at the two candidates we now have, Obama voted for the farm bill, which was laced with 6,000 pet projects, McCain voted no. This bill was a special interest feeding frenzy and Obama voted for $286 billion which alot went into pet projects, one being the 223 million bridge to nowhere. We need to realize that for our economy to really comeback we need a spending hawk, and that is what John McCain has and always will be.
Frank, I think all the above that commented sound like educated people and they won’t vote Obama…
But let me answer your comments shortly.
“inexperienced extreme socialist liberal with such an hateful background from sitting in the church he attended 20 years
Realist, Oh my god, you have won the 1st price on the must dumbest sentence ever to be placed on this website.
It you really believe in the things you typed you don’t know nothing about Obama and what he stands for.
-Please explain me why this is dumb at all, I did forget to put a comma between “inexperienced extreme socialist liberal with such an hateful background and from sitting in the church he attended 20 years, sitting in the church and the rest are reasons why he is hateful, not for the other, please read it now
“inexperienced extreme socialist liberal with such an hateful background, from sitting in the church he attended 20 years
YES I KNOW WHAT HE STANDS FOR, HIS POLICIES ARE EXTREME SOCIALIST AND LIBERAL AND EVERBODY AGREES THAT HE IS INEXPERIENCED, SO CAN YOU PREY TELL ME WHATS DUMB OVERHERE, WE HAVE SEEN FAR MORE DUMBER AND UNEDUCATED STATEMENTS COME FROM YOU IN THE PAST FORUMS ECCSPECIALLY IN “McCain criticizes Obama on Iran policy”…IT SEEMS LIKE YOU HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT HIS PAST JUST WHAT HE STANDS FOR, ANSWER ME ON THE FACTS I BROUGHT NOT GIVE ME THE YOUR DUMB!!!!you might have BLIND LOVE FOR OBAMA!!
You liked the extreme dumb, shortsighted, right wing, religious, unqualified George Bush. He failed. No give a guy with brains a chance.
NEVER SAID IF I LIKED HIM OR NOT, HOW DO YOU KNOW I LIKE HIM??? AND BESIDES HE IS NOT RUNING FOR A THIRD TERM SO I WANT SPEAK ABOUT HIM, AND I AGREE OBAMA HAS BRAINS BUT IN MY OPION OH MY IS IT TWISTED!!!!!!!!!!!
Let me guess, in your opinion McCain is a bad choice also, i am right?
IF YOUR SO WISE WHY DONT YOU HAVE THE ANSWER, DIDNT YOU READ MY LAST SENTENCE???:
I can hardly wait to see these debates when (hopefully) McCain will take off his glove and put this propagandist in place…let this be over already!
Another question, if Obama is so dangerous, why do the EDUCATED people vote for him?
THIS IS IN MY HUMBLE OPION THE FAR MUST DUMBEST SENTENCE POSTED NOT ONLY OVERHERE BUT ON ANY FORUM FOR TWO REASONS:
1) HISTORY WISE ALL THE BAD AND THE GOOD HAVE COME FROM THE EDUCATED, LET ME REMIND YOU THE GERMANS WE’RE ON OF THE MOST INTELLIGENT BUT THAT DIN’T KEEP THEM FROM BECOME NAZI’S AND WORSE THAN ANIMALS, WHAT DOES EDUCATON HAVE TO DO WITH THINKING STRAIGHT AND RIGHOTUSLY???
2)MY FREIND, THERE IS THE SAME AMOUNT OF EDUCATED PEOLPE THAT VOTED McCAIN AND CLINTON!!! AND BTW ALL THE EDUCATED PEOPLE I KNOW WILL NEVER VOTE FOR OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE ANGARY AMERICAN REFLECTS MY VIEWS ALL THE WAY,HE IS RIGHT 1000 PERCENT, EXCEPT THAT I AM HAPPY AMERICAN…
O_S, I agree with you completely, and it’s one of my big soapboxes about McCain. I wrote a commentary on it, but with all the hoopla between Clinton and Obama I tucked it away for a better time. Maybe it’s time to pull it out, a lot of facts and figures in it.
Please do Babs, I would love to see it and praise it!
i don’t think Frank should be attacked for not being an American when we have people who are American who come up with even worse conclusions.
Blind hate is when the exact same issues are with two people but you only see it with the person who you dislike and you totally ignore it with your candidate of choice. It is hate with out reasoning, logic or balanced comparison.
Uneducated people usually do not do research. This is how you get all the propaganda websites actually influencing people. You know linking him to Al Queida by saying his campaign is funded by them. 1/10 of americans think he is a Muslim. I’m willing to bet those are not the educated bunch. With all the Rev Wright controversy you still have the same number of people believing that he is a Muslim.
I also believe that Blind hate is not putting into context the people who have come out to support him. I mean a few hundred super delegates and some important politicians. Even some on the republican side have supported his foreign policy. I mean i guess they would also be dumb or what ever name people want to call them because they TOO are falling into this empty rhetoric. Colin Powell was great when he was part of the Bush Administration but now that he has said he doesn’t know who he is going to vote for then this makes him all of the above bad names as well. Because he can’t decide between one candidate and another one who is full of empty rhetoric.
This is not taken into context when insulting the regular citizens for supporting Obama. With so many powerful, well respected politicians and other prominent educated people supporting him this can influence a lot of people. This does not make them dumb by default. But if someone is going to attack the supporter they have to explain the other prominent political figures who have been around for Y E A R S supporting him.
Look at some of the posts on this thread attacking him with flawed or erroneous talking points which have been debunked but they still hold them as valid flaws.
This is why even I try to advise people to be more intelligent in how they criticize him. Because if an outsider is going to look at this board and think that this is an accurate representation of an Obama opposer they will think about the “educated” and “uneducated” poles. Which isn’t fair because there are educated people who dislike him too. But their argument is different.
And omg the explanation for why educated people are bad. I must have laughed for 5 minutes on that one. The explanation in itself exposes the intelligence level of the person presenting the argument! LOL! And why the dislike for educated people.
Why is it that Obama is characterized as the most liberal person in Washington or a socialist? I know actual socialists and Obama is FAR from a socialist. At this moment I am surrounded by a room full of people who are communists, are members of CPI and proudly display the hammer and sickle. Makes for some “interesting” decisions at the canteen. If you want a quasi-socialist in the Senate you need to look at Bernie Sanders. Obama labeled as a socialist is a joke. It seems like people just use the label socialist/socialism as a pejorative without really knowing or being exposed to true socialism.
TAA, the Obama’s plan is no where close to socialized medicine but it can be defined as a form of socialized insurance. What I don’t like about his program is that it is creating a new government bureaucracy. It would just be better to expand the existing user pool for Medicare to cover everybody instead of just the elderly since we all are paying into it anyway. There would need to be some tweaks but it would greatly reduce the current strain on most business that must offer health care as a benefit.
Also everything you said against socialized health care can easily be said about our US health care system. Americans pay a hidden tax already to cover the uninsured. Also those with insurance are paying monthly premiums that are nothing but a voluntary tax. Factor both of these in and our tax burden is either more or the same as other countries.
The long waits in socialized systems have been a meme propagated in the US that does not hold true. In places that do have socialized medicine/insurance there isn’t a wait for “needed” medical attention. However, there will be a long wait time for procedures that are considered elective. But in the US there are still waiting times and diminished quality of service due to rising cost and insurance companies deciding on what is deemed necessary service. I have had my own problem with Humana and I have an excellent plan partially subsidized by my employer.
We do not need to copy the universal health care systems in England, Germany, Canada, Japan, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, Ireland, Australia and … well … every industrialized nation on the plant. I would like to think that we Americans are smart enough to pull the best aspects of various systems and put together something that does not leave 45 million uninsured and another 45 million under-insured.
Realist,
‘-Please explain me why this is dumb at all’
First off al beceause Obama isnt a socialist.
Second he isnt an extreme liberal. He looks that way beceause of the fact that the rest of the political spectrum in America is so conservative.
Lets say he is a extreme liberal: Please, name bad things liberals do?
You probably dont know anything beceause being liberal is considered bad in America and so they never get to power.
They have never actually been in power but you are still convinced that the liberal way is a bad way to go.
And instead of looking at his pastors you could also look at his other background. A black father and a white mother. Kinda hard to be racist dont ya think?
Everybody talks about his inexpierence. Yes hes young, but since he graduated he has always been in public life. He has been a senator for more then 10 years know.
And if we talk about judgment. How about the speech he gave in 2002, exactly predicting the things that are now happening.
And last, Obama is not going to run the white house alone. he will have a great vice president and many expierenced secretarys and advisers surrounding him.
Personnally i would like to see Chuck Hagel as Vice President and Joe Biden as secretary of state.
Correction:
How about the speech he gave about the Iraq war in 2002, exactly predicting the things that are now happening.
Obama_Sucks,
“We need to realize that for our economy to really comeback we need a spending hawk, and that is what John McCain has and always will be.”
You are right that we need a spending hawk.
But John McCain wants to continue the war and lower taxes. uhhhh…..is he going to get all the money from stopping pork?
First off what Obama predicted is not all true, second are you going to sit around and write these replys and not think about all the recent reports from Iraq. You act as if the war is still horrible and nothing has come from it. Lately there has been great improvements in Iraq, and the most high level generals, and ambassadors say so.
McCain himself has even said by stopping pork he could use 300 billion of our taxpaying money to a greater and better cause, than the pork projects. 300 billion dollars is a lot of money, and yes you need to keep taxes low when some believe the economy is in a downfall. I believe in his idea to continue the war and %50 of the nation believe he will win the war if he is president, so many people do not see Iraq as you see it, and second by cutting spending it will help get our country a great deal of money to use towards something we need, like putting money into nuclear energy and things like that.
I have serious doubts any President will have the power to stop pork-barrel spending; especially if he has legislation he wants to pass while his party is the minority. Perhaps one can stand up to some of the more ridiculous requests that come across his desk - which based on McCain’s record on spending I think he would do - but a stone cold halt isn’t probable. Politicians of both parties have people they answer to, so unless he can provide some alternatives for satisfying those constituencies its not realistic you would even see half of that 300 bln.
Valid point, OBJB.
O_S:
50% —- half empty, or half full?
O.S.
What isn’t all true about Obama’s prediction from the war?
And where is this pole that suggests that 50% of Americans think that McCain can win the war?
Then these 50% must know what “winning” is.
Since you are one of these alleged 50% then why don’t you tell us what winning is. Because the senate doesn’t even know what winning is. Chuck Hagel made a good point along with others about how no one knows what winning is. I can provide video AGAIN if you need.
Hey Frank take notice to this
You notice how people in this thread keep saying that Intelligence suggested all those horrible things about Sadaam Huseein. Well guess what? That argument just got trashed today from the Senate Intelligence report.
You see there WAS intelligence suggesting SOME of the things.
But they DECEIVED everyone by SUPPRESSING INFORMATION.
Thus performing the lie of DECEPTION BY OMISSION.
But omitting CONTRARY Intelligence and suppressing evidence which would have pointing out that the intelligence which supported their War was faulty.
The rest of the intelligence like Iraq possibly giving weapons to Terrorist, etc was completely made up.
Yahoo News right here
http://news.yahoo.com/s/a.....telligence
Here’s a snipit from the Intelligence report
The Committee’s report cites several conclusions in which the Administration’s public statements were NOT supported by the intelligence. They include:
Ø Statements and implications by the President and Secretary of State suggesting that Iraq and al-Qa’ida had a partnership, or that Iraq had provided al-Qa’ida with weapons training, were not substantiated by the intelligence.
Ø Statements by the President and the Vice President indicating that Saddam Hussein was prepared to give weapons of mass destruction to terrorist groups for attacks against the United States were contradicted by available intelligence information.
Ø Statements by President Bush and Vice President Cheney regarding the postwar situation in Iraq, in terms of the political, security, and economic, did not reflect the concerns and uncertainties expressed in the intelligence products.
Ø Statements by the President and Vice President prior to the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate regarding Iraq’s chemical weapons production capability and activities did not reflect the intelligence community’s uncertainties as to whether such production was ongoing.
Ø The Secretary of Defense’s statement that the Iraqi government operated underground WMD facilities that were not vulnerable to conventional airstrikes because they were underground and deeply buried was not substantiated by available intelligence information.
Ø The Intelligence Community did not confirm that Muhammad Atta met an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague in 2001 as the Vice President repeatedly claimed.
View it here
http://intelligence.senat.....?id=298775
The whole report is very damaging. And has bipartisan report.
Does this support Scott McClellan Bush’s Former Press Secretary? Yes i believe it does.
And remember Colin Powell saying he was mis led before he went to the U.N. and that there were BURN notices on the intelligence which was suppressed.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2ZTLmOoPzjs
Regardless of this you will see an example of Blind support for Bush and the war policy.
Blind meaning the above information i posted will never exist in their mind. They will ignore it and still argue the same points which have been debunked by the senate and members of their own party.
Cant agree with you more, dreadsen.
You know what i think is funny. McCain and his fans talk about pork barrel spending constantly. This is government waste and shouldnt happen.
But even though its not thr right thing to do, most pork barrel projects benefit the american society (bridges, roads etc.).
While the war costs billions every year and doesnt benefit them at all.
Hey Frank
Here is Richard Clark former Terror adviser to Bush and Clinton
on The countdown talking about these findings.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IbR3QPcmxFU
And the killer thing about the War is we are spending billions while the Iraqi are NOT. They are saving up billions of dollars while we still spend our money. How is this conservative? Remember us being sold on the idea that the Iraqi money would pay for the rebuilding?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=F1lwfyh4PE4
That is Barbara Boxer when questioning the ambassador and the General. They go into a few details of our money being spent while Iraq saves up billions. While we are going deeper in debt Iraq is getting richer. Yet the people who support this allegedly are the people who represent cutting spending?
Dreadsen, thanks for the links here, very interesting reading, and I agree with you that this has become very bipartisan. When I followed your link to the intelligence committee’s site, I also noted the report from Bond yesterday:
http://intelligence.senat.....?id=298783
To quote the beginning:
WASHINGTON, DC – U.S. Senator Kit Bond, Vice Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, today admonished Democrats for playing politics with the final reports on prewar Iraq intelligence to score election-year points.
“It is ironic that the Democrats would knowingly distort and misrepresent the Committee’s findings and the intelligence in an effort to prove that the Administration distorted and mischaracterized the intelligence,†said Bond.
And it goes on siting particulars. It appears to me while both candidates are preaching party unity in their campaigns, their constiuents have no inclination to fall in line with either of their principals. So I took a look at the member list of the committee, I see one of the republican members of the committee is an official from my own district. Guess I’ll be writing him another letter to tell him to grow up and behave. *L* He’ll probably never read it, but I’ll feel better about it.
Why does this topic stop now? I would like to see what the people above have to say about this new information which the American Senate has put forth.
It appears people here just want to attack with out substance.
But when real substance comes up the topic stop.
It appears empty attack can reach many posts.
Except when it is against the people who are attacking.
Oh i Have another question for you all.
Why was it okay to have hearings and actually have a vote on Impeaching your president Bill Clinton for lying about cheating on his wife.
But no one cares about at least having HEARINGS to see if there is enough evidence for impeachment of Bush.
Ken Starr spend almost a billion dollars trying to get rid of Bill Clinton over infidelity.
George Bush and his administration is responsible for hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives which no one talks about. all they talk about is 4000 soldiers. Or the going on a trillion dollars of debt. But this is not as bad as infidelity?
There is enough evidence now that should warrant hearings for this?
Or is this type of activity acceptable as long as you don’t cheat on your wife?
Lordan,
There is no reason to hold hearing, or impeach President Bush. What the senate did is outrageous, and I would like to say we had trusted intel from most of the best countries for it, Israel, Britain. There is no point in bringing up an impeachment of Bush you are just bringing up a leftwing talking point that is idiotic and stupid.
I love how you people can say McCain would not cut spending, especially when its for his own party, the pork being. That is dumb and idiotic, McCain does not and has never gone by his party, he does not care if it is democratic or republican pork, the man will not let it go through plain and simple. He will cut spending much more than Barack Obama will, and that is a fact.
Lordan
Notice how he didn’t answer the question and didn’t comment on the contrary evidence in the report.
O.S.
What he asked is why is it okay to have HEARINGS and then actually have an Impeachment vote for Bill Clinton for Lying about a extra marital affair.
But all the intel you site from around the world had BURN NOTICES. And the claim is there is CONTRARY INTELLIGENCE which was SUPPRESSED.
Do you understand what the charge is?
It doesn’t matter about what intelligence you are presenting if you are only giving people some of the intelligence but do away with contrary Intelligence. That means you are not letting the people who you are trying to convince make a fair unbiased decision.
Remember Colin Powell said the intelligence he had when he went to the U.N. ALREADY HAD BURN NOTICES but the fact that his INTELL was flawed was kept away from him. So he was lying and he didn’t even know it.
I would like to see detailed evidence from the other side about these claims.
If you want I will give you the PDF of the ENTIRE REPORT so we can all read it together. That is IF you want to know if what you believe is POSSIBLY false.
And look at this. Iran may have given false information so we could take out their Enemy IRAQ. It’s long and I am still reading it.
Hey Babs read this article and tell me what you think. I actually trust you to read it with an open mind.
http://www.mcclatchydc.co.....40080.html
*LOL* Thanks for the vote of confidence, Dreadsen, I started reading it but you’re right, it’s very long and deserves my complete attention, I’ll get to it this afternoon and give you my opinion.
In the meantime, I think we shouldn’t be surprised at whatever of this is true and not true. We’ve been a country for a long time where one hand usually doesn’t know what the other is doing, especially when the CIA and FBI are involved. Agree?
Babs you are very correct.
Just like when 9/11 first happened you had both pointing the finger at each other.
I wonder just how much intelligence on various things come up all of the time.
Remember when people were trying to accuse the government of ignoring the warnings?
But if i am not mistaken there are tons of warnings of all kinds of things all day long but 99% of it is ether hot air, ends up having a burn notice later or is just too weak.
But depending on how serious of an action we are going to take on any matter we need to make sure the case is air tight.
Yep, I don’t know how many times over the years we’ve heard that the CIA or the FBI didn’t act on intelligence because they didn’t think the lead “was credible”. So much so it’s a staple line in movies. That and the “deniability” angle, and I always wonder how legitimate that is as well and how often is it used in reality.
I’ve always thought the CIA and the FBI should merge and work as one. Working separately and to different ends has caused more problems and embarrassment for us as a nation than any one President I can think of. I was hoping Homeland Security would be the answer, but the jury’s still out on that one for me. I will give credit to Bush for creating Homeland Security, though.