Subscribe by RSSClinton wants another debate with Obama (Updated)
I don’t blame her, the last debate did her some good only because Obama stumbled a bit. She’s the “underdog” heading into the next contests so she doesn’t have much to lose.
Her challenge and statements from Yahoo News:
New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, who is challenging him for the Democratic presidential nomination, campaigned Friday morning in Jacksonville, N.C., and continued to pressure Obama for a debate before the May 6 primaries there and in Indiana.
Their most recent debate was last week in Philadelphia; North Carolina Democrats recently dropped plans for a debate.
“The only question I can’t answer is why Senator Obama won’t debate me in North Carolina,” Clinton said. “Again, I offer that I’ll go anywhere, anytime, and we’ll have that debate as long as Senator Obama would agree to actually meet me.”
Obama is favored to win in North Carolina; the Indiana race is considered close.
I don’t think it’s going to happen, not at this point during the contests. Obama has made it pretty clear that he’s none too keen on the idea of debating again.
Update
On this topic, Clinton is proposing that she and Obama engage in two debates focused on the northwestern part of the United States. This would be ahead of the Oregon primary on May 20th.
Here’s the clip:
She’s really beating the debate drum, I’m not so sure people are really clamoring for more. In fact, if voters don’t know where both Obama and Clinton stand on every single issue, they’ll never know or they’re choosing to be ignorant.
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Of course she wants a debate, as long as it’s skewed in her favor. All the last debate was about was spin issues that have no relevancy to the race itself. The fact is, Obama has slaughtered Clinton on the issues in every REAL debate they’ve had. That’s why he gained so much momentum in the first place, and that’s why he’s likely to get the nomination in the end, barring some shady dealing by Clinton.
Fact is Josh that Clinton has won all of the big states that give big electoral votes in the fall. Obama may be able to do the same against McCain but we sure know that hillary has a better shot than Obama does don’t we.
You Obama people keep talking about how he has more over all votes. Do none of you understand how the general election works?
Clinton beat Obama in the much needed states so it is clear that in the general election she will have a better shot at beating McCain. How in the hell can you argue against that?
The debate issue is stupid. She has the same types of questions as he does. If he don’t want to hear about racist buddies then don’t have racist buddies. It’s not her fault. He is scared of Clinton because he knows she can beat him and he don’t want the public to know it.
Josh,
Is it possible Obama did well in the earlier debates because he was given softball questions which were never followed up on?
Just asking.
Dem ‘08,
You’re correct, Obama being asked about his associates is fair game, he’s the one who chose to keep such company for 20+ years.
No, Dem ‘08, you’re mistaken. The larger states that Clinton holds that vote Democrat in the general election such as California, New York, Massachusetts, etc. are states that a Democrat is going to win in the general election anyway.
In the large states that vote Republican in the general election she has less support from Independents and Republicans than Obama does. That seems to be more of a problem considering that whoever the nominee is will receive all Democrat votes come November anyway. What you need is to show that you don’t just get votes from your own party but that you can persuade voters from other parties to rally behind your platform, and she can’t do that.
She’s always been a very divisive figure in politics just as Bush was and still is. And to think for even a moment that a Republican that voted for Bush both in ‘00 and ‘04 is going to vote for her is delusional. When a Republican hears the name “Clinton” they cringe. The same would be true for Democrats if another Bush were running this year in ‘08. No Democrat would ever vote for another Bush. And no Republican will vote for another Clinton. Period.
And the idea of another debate is ridiculous for either candidate to consider. Twenty-one debates is plenty for voters from North Carolina, Indiana and the remaining primaries to choose their candidate. Any more would draw focus from their stances on issues and drone away at them both on trivial issues. Ohio should have been the last debate when the moderators started to pose the question “Now, most Americans can’t see much of a difference between the two of you. Can you explain what there is?” And they’ve done that by explaining their differing takes on issues like Health Care and the War in Iraq to the point that they now have to start picking away at character flaws in one another – enough’s enough.
If Clinton can’t show high enough support within the 21 states that during the general election are considered “swing states” (which she only has only won 5 of whereas Obama has won 10 with only 4 “swing states” remaining in the primaries) then her argument is null and void. And no, my math is not off. She didn’t officially win Florida (where neither candidate campaigned) nor did she officially win Michigan (where Obama’s name wasn’t even on the ballot).
I’d say she has 4 chances left - Indiana(May6), West Virginia(May13), and Kentucky and Oregon(May20) to make her case.
Hillary Clinton hits the nail on the head. Oregonians don’t just want question-free rallies, thirty second commercials and campaign rhetoric…we want to hear about how each candidate will help us right here in Oregon.
The Oregon primary is May 20th, not May 22nd.
I couldn’t have been happier to sign her petition at http://www.debateoregon.com calling on both candidates to hold two presidential debates in Oregon. I just hope Obama joins the conversation so we can focus on the issues rather than the trivia.
Curtis,
Thanks for the correction, I should have known it was the 20th, I have it set on my own schedule on the site.
Hilary, McCain also have racist buddies. Or have willingly associated with them. Since this Wright thing has come up there have been rules added to what is fair game for guilt by association. When I’ve always thought if you CHOOSE to associate with someone who is viewed as bad then you should be questioned on it. It doesn’t matter if it is 20 years of 2 days. People now are looking at how long someone associates with an alleged bad person and want to dismiss it if it isn’t as long as Obama was a member of this 99% white denomination.
That fact alone is evidence enough that this man isn’t a racist.
The issue is the amount of time used for those types of questions. How about ask about these alleged racist buddies for the entire debate? Since they are legit questions that would be fine right?
It’s okay to ask a few of those questions but use the time allocated for the debate wisely.
Fris,
Don’t you hate it when people who like to be smart make it so obvious that they are not?
You came up with a strong argument but it is wrong. Thanks to you I did some extra work and checked my claims. Guess what….YEP, I was right.
Lets assume that what you say is right and the normal Democrat states will vote Democrat again. Clinton has the support from these states over Obama. The idea is now to win what is normally Republican states.
Talking in Electoral Vote values which is what matters in the general election, lets see if Obama or Clinton has the most support in electoral vote values from the normal Republican states they carry in this primary.
CLINTON = 125 electoral votes
OBAMA = 116 electoral votes
This race is close with approx. 45 electoral votes that are normally Republican states. It could go either way here but as of right now Clinton has a stronger position as far as electoral votes in the fall go. Thank You!
Fris,
You said….
“And to think for even a moment that a Republican that voted for Bush both in ‘00 and ‘04 is going to vote for her is delusional”
Can we ask Fred what he thinks of Obama? I am sure that someone who is a big Fred T supporter will vote Democrat. I wonder what they will think after Fred spoke? Now that is settled.
As far as Florida and Michigan go. Do you really think that the American people in two whole states should not be heard? I know that people who say that these states should not count are just unfair and biased Obama fans because he lost both. The people who say count these states know that this is America where everyone should have a voice.
ANYONE who argues with that is an idiot and should live outside this country.
Don’t tell me that Obama was not in the running and it was unfair because of that. It was his choice to give these people a chance to speek. He chose to ignore them because he thought they could not help him and that is all he was concerned with. Now he wishes he had been fair to those people because it came back to get his …..behind!
Dreadsen,
Go stand with your nose in the corner and think about what you said for a while…..
No other candidate has close relationships whit such radical people as Obama. He may not agree with every word that Wright said but the problem is that no doubt he does not disagree with the man as much as he should for someone asking to be president.
Just biased flap is all you got. Just accept the fact that he has racist and radical buddies and stop trying to point fingers at the other candidates for Obama issues.
Dem ‘08,
You should go kneel in the corner on some rice. Your analysis of the general election prospects is incorrect. Also, Clinton and McCain both have radical racist “buddies” as well. The Clintons’ life-long mentor (according to them) was a segregationist and KKK member, and McCain’s pastor is a xenophobic televangelist who thinks America is destined to eradicate muslims. The only reason you don’t know about it is because all you watch, apparently, is the mainstream media, who’s not spoken about these things because they won’t make them as much money (plus, they really seem to be working for Clinton lately).
Josh,
I never said anything about who Clinton has for friends. I only said that the other candidates don’t have such a strong relationship with the radicals. What I said is true. You people just want to deny the link of Obama to such people as Wright and Farrahkan.
Read this stuff carefully Josh and try not to get stupid. Wright and Obama have been on a personal level with each other for 20 plus years. The other candidates just think they have something to gain from those peopel they associated with. Obama has gone to Wright over the pasy 20 years to get help with personal stuff.
My post are right on the money and you watch what group of people argue with me.
Do the work boy! Tell us why in real evidence that I am wrong. Give us something other than a biased opinion because there is already a lot of that here now.
Don’t take it personal….lol If you try you can be right about something I’m sure…lol
on each debate hillary tries to do what she’s good at. Damaging her opponents image. And untill now she has done a pretty good job. No wander he doesn’t want to debate. The people in Oregon already had the opportunity to decide on bases of the philadelphia-debate. You don’t need a debate (fight) if you let people exactly know what you stand for.
If they do end up doing another debate, I hope they will explore some issues they haven’t explored. We’ve beat healthcare, the war in iraq, and character to death. Maybe how they would address climate change? I think that that deserves an entire debate unto itself as it has barely had any attention in the previous 21 debates.
Wow, apparently I struck a nerve there, sweetie-pie. Or is it just that time of the month for you again? Can you not read your own posts? You said “No other candidate has close relationships whit (sic) such radical people as Obama.” I was refuting your argument, and the people that I mentioned ARE radicals, and the Clintons have claimed that Fulbright was their mentor since 1966. At least Wright wasn’t telling his “flock” that they should aspire to eradicate Whites, which makes him LESS radical than the other two. All politicians are linked to people like this in some way or another, it’s all in whether or not you are ignorant and confused enough to be blinded by these, what I call, “spin issues”. I don’t deny that Obama sat in Wright’s church, and was even friends with the guy. Why is it that it’s O.K., in your eyes, to regurgitate over and again these “flaps” when Obama is concerned, but not when it comes to Clinton (or McCain, for that matter, who is a known racist and xenophobe)? That is just the kind of hypocrisy I’d expect from a Clinton supporter. And what is this about boy? Can you not control your rabid feminist anger?
Oh, and as far as the electoral college thing, no you were not on the money, not even nearly. You can’t just irrationally arrange electoral votes in a way that favors a specific outcome and expect to form a sound argument from your arrangement! Obama has won just about every state that is typically considered a “red” state. The fact is that Obama has a large support base in conservative states, as well as with Republicans who are tired of their party’s decidedly Un-Republican antics. I know people that have never voted Democrat in their LIVES who are Obama supporters. Obama will win in the big states in the general election, they’re just about all BLUE states anyway, but Hillary has almost no chance of winning in Red states! As far as Florida and Michigan go, all of the candidates agreed not to count them, and Clinton was one of the most vocal on this issue, so say what you want about her wanting to count them, but that wasn’t the case when she was the shoe-in. The other thing is, 40 percent of Michigan voters voted un-decided, where Clinton was the only big name on the ballot. That means 40% of Michigan voters would rather vote for no-one than for Clinton, so I have to wonder how many more just “settled”. It is difficult to argue your point when you don’t know all the facts…
Dem08,
Seen at Josh’s response to you, if I were you I would be really embarassed. But I guess you won’t recognize it anyway. It’s okay.
At this point I can’t even see Clinton giving up before playing every trick in the book. She has to think in 2012 and all she’s doing now can be counter-productive for her political career from now on.
Babs…
I agree, we haven’t heard anything about climate change since the youbtube thing months ago, from either side. Infrastructure development would be another good thing to hear about, even if only to open dialogue on how we are to fix that issue. I’d also like to hear about the candidates thoughts on nuclear power.
Josh,
LOL, you must be one I have never had a debate with before. I don’t take this stuff personal because if I did then stupid people who like to let their mouth loose would get me upset. Truth is that I just like to call out those dumb ass people who like to spit out thier story. Problem just as I ask you to do, none of you can show facts on any of your arguement.
You can’t show facts so that just confirms just what I thought about you. You know millions of people and you know how they will vote and you know every so called fact that makes Obama look good.
I am the one who will tell you that they all suck. The only thing is that Clinton will screw everyone a little less than the others. Defend Obama and Wright if you want to but it just makes you look more and more like a loser. I guarantee one thing though. I can point out facts all day and I have no problem making you look stupid. You have no facts and you defend Obama like he is you dad. You can’t even admit that he has major faults like they all do. He is a loser for trying to trick the American people with this “change” talk and you are a loser for buying every word.
FACTS….got any?
Michel,
I don’t get embarassed about such things. I like to let people make my point and a few of you do real good, Thank you!
I can’t seem to find a real debate with an Obama supporter who can offer facts without bias. All I say is don’t be so stupid. Obama is just like all the others but he has a new plan to fool you. You should send Obama some of your money, but don’t forget to team up with Josh and support Wright. He could use some help about now because unlike you two the rest of the country has a problem with such radical people.
Your turn….Attack loser!
Dem 08
Josh stole my thunder big time. And you are not raising points or refuting his facts which you seem to ignore.
Fulbright ouch. I remember Sean Hannity bringing that up to al sharpton. Good Point.
You are bias against Obama so that defeats your bias argument.
Now if you want we can go into the dynamics of how you mysteriously connect the dots to Farakahn. Explain this please with facts and not bias anger please.
I have one fact for you. White people belong to Wrights church and his denomination is all white except for his church. So explain who Wright is a Racist and why this all White denomination honors him and why white people belong to his church?
Dreadsen,
Are you out of the corner again!
Look, Clinton and McCain have both associated with radical people as well. I am not defending any candidate. I am just asking the Obama supporters to be fair and recognize his flaws and stop trying to lift him above anybody. I don’t have to explain his actions because most people have enough sence to realize who he is.
I am biased against Obama sure but I am biased against Clinton and McCain as well. I just point out Obama has issues because idiots like you seem to notice flaws in everyone except Obama. You explain that!
I agree that white people belong to Wright’s church but that don’t say anythig to clear the man. All this does is show that there are a number or of people of any race who are idiots. Don’t defend Wright to me goofy. You make me sick…..LOL
READ THIS….
Why can’t you Obama supporters admit he is just as much a loser as Clinton and McCain? Just be honest. Support him, that’s fine but don’t defend his actions as though they don’t exist! Got a good answer to this? Attack me later first answer this…either one of you!
Dem 08
Why are you calling me an idiot? I’m just asking you some questions which you clearly duck every time. That’s fine. Looks like I must have hit a vital cord. Which shows your weak illogical rebuttals. ” oh they are just idiots” wow are these the facts you bragg about? I don’t defend anyone’s actions as if they don’t exist. I just want everyone to be fair with everyone. If were going to call someone a Hypocrite then everyone is a hypocrite. you know pot calling kettle black?
You single out one person but i dont’ see you equally laying down the same info on the other candidates. This is the problem. Singular judgement. If everyone else can get past their candidates flaws and THEY also come up with ways to justify them doing so by either explaining away the action or just ignoring it. If an Obama supporter is doing this they are no different then the other people who support their candidate.
Obama and Wright are not Racist. This is the point. They are both many things but they do not hate a particular race or Gender. This is a false charge. This is why i brought up the white people in the church and the church denomination being 99% white. Those facts do hold some weight whether you like it or not. YOu hate these people and nothing can prove other wise. I just want people to dislike them for the right reasons at not the wrong sound bite reasons or misinformation .
As you see i try to attack your argument and not you. Usually when people lower themselves to direct ad hominem style of writing is because they can’t refute the points being raised. Don’t attack me based on some conversation or experiences you have with other Obama supporters. Just stick to the points I raise and address them.
Now you say they all suck and you are not defending anyone? Then why do you say that Hilary won’t screw people as much as the rest? I see you used the word “Associated”. Some of them are still associating with these bad people. I just want people to see that it isn’t just Obama with not so clean people he associates with. IF you go by the media he’s the ONLY ONE and the rest all hang out with Saints from heaven.
This false persuasion needs to be addressed and not ignored. But the Obama haters must feel that it is fine that his flaws are portrayed as unique. Eventhough past presidents have had the same ones and even the current people running now do as well. That is my point. If you are going to try to play this ” i don’t like any of them card” then spread the hate evenly.
If all of your hate is being spread unevenly all the time in one direction then regardless of what you WANT US to believe its obvious what your true agenda is.
Look at me maw, I’m pedaling backward……
‘Clinton wants’…well that’s nice for her.
Dreadsen,
I call you an idiot because I call idiots….well, idiots! Fact is that you don’t call out Obama any. Not once have I heard you admit that Obama has issues. I point out his flaws because idiots like you only defend him. You say you want to be fair but you don’t know how. I know Clinton is a liar and I don’t defend her. She lies and she has questionable associations with people who have money because she has something to gain. McCain is worse than Bush on every issue.
I support Clinton but I will call her out on issues as well. You mostly hear me call out Obama because all Obama supportes I see are biased and defent what he does. None of you are fair. I don’t hate Obama supporters. I hate people who want everyone to be fair as long as no one has a thing to say about Obama. One of the reasons that you are an idiot is because you defend wright and Obama’s relationship with him. Obama has a very personal relationship with his radical pastor. I don’t think the other candidates has such a personal relationship with radical people. They do have associations with radical people but is is all about money. Obama has personal relationships that are about guidance and morals.
You only defend Obama and Wright and you downplay the actions of racist people when the attack America. You put your support for a man you don’t even know above your support for a nation that gives you and those you love the very freedoms that you enjoy right now. This is the main reason you are a loser and an idiot. It’s not an attack for me to say that. I just feel like your types need to be singled out for your actions just like Wright.
If you don’t want to be known as an idiot then stick up for what is right and call out those who are questionable even when it is the candidate you support. You can support Obama and still call him out. Dont downplay what he does to us because it only proves you to be an idiot, understand?
Stop being so biased and realize that they all have serious issues and don’t defend those who teach people that our government created aids to kill blacks.
Stop doing these things and I will stop calling you out.
Now, I don’t duck questions. Got a question? Ask it directly right now. My questions for you are:
1.) Why don’t you see Obama’s faults?
2.) Why do you attack the other candidates but only defend Obama?
3.) Why don’t you defend the American people and call out racist people like Wright?
4.) Why do you insist on being an idiot?
Dreadsen,
Now that is not an attack. I just gave you facts about you and those like you. Yes these are some of the facts that I bragg about. I am proud that I recognize this about you and I only wish you did. I believe you have good intentions but you get so caught up in defending Obama that you fail to see what position you put yourself in.
Josh and Michel are just the same. Defend Obama and downplay such serious acts as Wright’s. It’s sad that you do this and call yourself American. This is a big issue because its a false attack on America and anybody who defends them is just asking for it.
You have to stop and think what you say and seperate yourself from idiots if you don’t want to be one.
Dem 08
Name calling. still huh? show how mature you are in this discussion.
The same things you accuse me of you are guilty as well. Why don’t you say They are all Racist. What about Fulbright? You have no addressed the single issues presented. Show me where you equally attack Hilary with the same passion. You say I down play Obama well maybe you should read your downplay of these same radical associations. You are losing the debate here. And this is proven by your aggressive name calling and anger. You can not provide proof that i do not see obama’s faults. You people here provide plenty of that. You still have not given proper answer to Rev Wright’s Church. And the points i have raised.
His attacks are on institution. What wright says is flat out wrong about the Government. but you have not provided me with proof that he is a racist. Wright is a radical but he should be disliked for some of his way out there radical views. You
still have not provided equal evidence of the other candidates being just as guilty. You only make a “general” explanation of why they associate with these types. Or choose to. I can point out some people McCain and Clinton have associated themselves with.
You didn’t get anything in my last post. You just wrote the same nonsense which i addressed already. There should be an equal blast on all of the candidates. Do i need to dissect my last post for you so you can understand? You are too bias
and will only be happy if everyone bows down and just says you are right.
You still have not provide me evidence showing Wright as a racist. Or Obama as one. You have shown me something terrible that he has said about an institution but not against a race or gender.
I know you will just come back yelling and screaming “You are an idiot he’s a racist”
But still provide no evidence. I’m not saying evidence doesn’t exist. I just want you to substantiate this claim.
Now look at yourself. I made it clear what my intentions were. You have created your own misrepresentation of my argument with slam dunk refutations of already addressed points. it is sad that you don’t have any thing to go on but still carry on in such a hostile manner. All the charges you
raise on me are make believe and can not be connected.
Address the points and don’t make up false ones to argue.
1.) I see and know Obama’s faults. actually i believe i could clown you on way more legit faults on Obama then what you bring up. He’s voted on some things which really scare me and the rest of America. But those aren’t what are being brought up right now.
I like how Karl Rove packages it. And in the Thompson thread i agreed with Thompsons assessment of Obama which was not a postive one. Did you see that? No. You ignore this.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/134322
2.)If i am in a thread where he is being slammed already there is no need for me to join in. But if he is being slammed on things which the other candidates are guilty of I will provide evidence if i can on the other candidates so someone else who is reading this who is undecided can make a fair judgement. It is not a DOWNPLAY.
3.) I will not call out Wright as a Racist until you provide evidence that he hates a race or gender. But the same question goes to you. if you make the claim that I am unamerican for not calling someone out on something which i haven’t seen the evidence of is just silly.
watch this. You will see the WHITE leaders of the United Church of Christ coming to Trinity to defend the Church and reverend white. Anyone reading this and watches these series of videos can make their own judgement.
http://www.youtube.com/wa.....re=related
Further more why aren’t you providing the evidence that everyone else is providing on Hilary and connecting the dots which would make her to be a racist? The same dots you connect with Obama are the same dots which can be connected with Hilary. WHY AREN’T YOU PROVIDING THIS INFO? The fact that you are not shows that you don’t have the moral authority to make the same claim of myself.
4.) Maybe you don’t know what the definition of the word “Fact” is. Do you need help with this? Here’s another link for you. http://www.dictionary.com Look up the words meaning then look at your question. And you bragg about facts.
Now i have addressed your questions. And i have given you challenges with in those addresses. If you can not see them just request it and i will single them out for you. Address my requests as well and don’t just come back with false claims and assumptions on my character which you have no evidence on or things i have already addressed about your false claims on my character.
Why can’t you talk more mature and refrain from name calling?
If you want me to stop defeating your argument to reduce your anger just ask.
Dem 08, when you tell someone “this is not an attack” and call them an idiot in the same post (idiot being a term originally used to refer to the mentally retarded) you sound disingenuous. It’s sort of like stabbing someone and saying “this is not an assault”. But really everyone in hear could really stand to cool down…
About Wright, obviously his claim that the government created aids to kill blacks is pretty radical. I’m not sure how many times he asserted this claim during sermons, but I do think that question is relevant.
I also feel that Obama addressed this subject very effectively, at least in my eyes: by elaborating on the subject matter and attempted to help the American people at large understand where this stuff comes from. If he is able to act as an impartial mediator and see through the eyes of many different perspectives, than he probably isn’t a radical himself.
Obama wrote his now infamous “Race speech” himself, and so I think it’s fair to say he has a decent perspective on things - assuming you feel that his speech expressed a wide ranging perspectives of the American people. Personally, I thought that the broad range of perspectives he was able to take on and express in that speech was the most impressive thing about it.
I also think that a claim like “the government created aids to infect black people” sounds insane, but so do many actual historical facts. The Tuskegee experiment, for instance, which spanned 40 years and allowed almost 400 black men to die: well that sounds right out of a lunatic conspiracy theory. Only it’s true.
Just like it’s true that in the 50’s and 60′ the government thought LSD might be useful for mind control, and so they tested it on our own soldiers, largely without their knowledge or consent. This is also a matter of public record.
Is it any wonder that people begin forming paranoid theories when a new deadly virus appears that seems to be hitting one race harder than others? Obama’s response was never one of agreement, but simply one of understanding. And I appreciate that.
I don’t deny that some of what Wright has said is dangerous and worrying. But I also understand it - and I think most of it has been exaggerated to an insane degree by the media. What I’m addressing here wasn’t the sermon he gave every sunday, it’s just what we hear about every day on fox.
Have you actually listened to any of his sermons Dem ‘08, or just talking points? I think what you’re mentioning are really not what embodies the Rev. Wright. I guess that’s why it’s never bothered me overly much. But that’s just my POV
Dreadsen,
I am not name calling. I am not trying to hurt your feelings. It is name calling to call a horse a horse? You may not see Wright as a racist but most of the nation knows better. What proof or him being a racist do you want? You know everything. He is a racist to me and many others.
Don’t continue to defend Wright to me because you are wasting your time. We can argue on Obama though because all I am saying is you need to recognize his actions and be fair. You are just biased.
I am glad to see you atleast know Obama has some issues bit you never talk about it because you are biased. I am not going to defend Clinton. I don’t have to point out her faults because all of you stay on her. That is fine but when you never talk about Obama I will remind you.
Sorry if it hurts your feelings but your post scream “idiot”. If you don’t want to be known as an idiot then look in a mirror for answers.
I have a question for you Dreadsen… if most people, as you say, defend Obama’s actions instead of Clinton’s or McCain’s… and, as most of the Clintons detractors claim, we’re surrounded by “OBAMABOTS”… isn’t that a reflection that most people are supporting Obama and their support is more visible than the support received by the other two candidates?
Isn’t that a reflection of Obama having a larger support and that being a reflection of the democratic feelings across the country?
I would like to hear you answer, biased or not.
Good point, Indiminded! The Tuskeegee Syphillis experiments are yet another terrible stain on American history (and one they rarely teach in school, unfortunately), as are the Bridgewater State hospital experiments, which is what I think you are referring to with the LSD bit. Of course Wrights comments may sound radical to us, especially when they are removed from their context. To a guy like Wright, however, that actually lived through a time when things like this seemed to be commonplace, the idea that AIDS was created by certain White people may not seem all that illogical. It is doubtful, however, that Obama holds the same beliefs on issues like this, because he is from a different time.
Dem08 seems to be the type that never actually evaluated Wright’s comments in context, and probably doesn’t even know what the comments were in the first place. She is obviously, as most Clinton hold-outs seem to now be doing, repeating what she has heard instead of forming any actual hypothesis of her own regarding the situation.
Of course Indiminded, you must be an idiot like me, because you sound like you know what you’re talking about. It is interesting that someone who can barely form a coherent sentence considers one an “idiot” because they form a superior argument; one with, yes, facts. It must be the paradigm of idiocy to inform and educate yourself, and if it is, I’d much rather be an idiot than a genius like Dem08!
I love debates! I always look forward to them! I even record them for posterity and have a big collection of them.
But please…….no more friggin’ debates!!!! The dog and pony show is only stirring up the BS.
21 is MORE than enough.
Please, for the love of God….
Dem 08
Quote from Dem 08
“Truth is that I just like to call out those dumb ass people who like to spit out thier story. Problem just as I ask you to do, none of you can show facts on any of your arguement.”
next Quote from Dem 08
“You can’t show facts so that just confirms just what I thought about you.”
next quote from Dem 08
“I can point out facts all day and I have no problem making you look stupid. You have no facts and you defend Obama like he is you dad”
more from Dem 08
“Tell us why in real evidence that I am wrong. Give us something other than a biased opinion because there is already a lot of that here now.”
After all of this Hooplah and Dem 08’s challenge to present facts and not biased opinion. every single time she only presents biased opinion and no facts at all.
Dem 08 in your last post
“You may not see Wright as a racist but most of the nation knows better. What proof or him being a racist do you want? You know everything. He is a racist to me and many others.”
Where are these facts you bragg of? Just biased opinion in your post and no facts which you proudly claim you can produce but no one else can. I didn’t ask you about what the nation thinks or knows. I asked you what YOU know. And for YOU to present facts. Remember read up. You are the one bragging about how you can produce facts. Yet you duck and dodge every time.
I can go through this thread and point out where you have been rebutted with a fact after claiming it could not be done
and then refusing to comment on how you got smacked down. But then resorting to biased opinion because you had nothing else to go on.
Remember this quote from you?
“No other candidate has close relationships whit such radical people as Obama”
That was disproven.
Now in your remaining posts have been nothing but as you call it “biased flap” And bringing up assumptions which i have already addressed. you have nothing else but recycled arguments which have already been addressed and challenges issued to provide proof of the claim.
hahaha!
more comedy from Dem 08
“I am not going to defend Clinton. I don’t have to point out her faults because all of you stay on her. That is fine but when you never talk about Obama I will remind you.”
no you have it wrong. when ever you all bring up something about Obama which is the same flaw with the other candidates I WILL remind you. you can’t show me having a history of being unfair to anyone. I already explained my position. I don’t just stay on Hilary. you have me mistaken for someone else. You can’t loop me in that category with out providing facts. Until then you have my explanation.
And i’m waiting for you to address the points you have ducked.
or do you admit that you can’t and concede?
Michel
I’m not sure i understand your question because i haven’t made that claim. Do you mean to direct that to Dem 08?
This is better than a Clinton/Obama debate. =)
Actually Josh, I was referring before to CIA’s Project MKULTRA, where they tested LDS on unknowing US troops in the 50’s and 60’s. I’m not trying to put anti-government rhetoric out there - Clinton apologized for it in 1995, I’m just pointing out that the government has given the people adequate reason for paranoia. Such that some things that sound like unreasonable conspiracy theories aren’t that wild when put into context. It was decades before the government admitted to project Mkultra, for instance.
But really, I think that’s less important than pointing out that Wright wasn’t preaching his wild theory every sunday. It wasn’t who he was, to my understanding it wasn’t something he would go on about constantly. It’s just something he’s said that has gained notoriety. Was Obama even in the church when he made this accusation?
Honestly I feel bad interjecting anything at this point. Dem 08 obviously has about a dozen prObama responses and he can’t reasonably be expected to insult all of them…
Indiminded good post!
Looking at the History there I can see how someone can connect the dots like Wright did.
Josh
With intelligence and sound arguments backed up with facts like you and Indiminded present I am honored to be in the “idiot” club. I’ve been trying to question Dem 08 to show that the source of this impression that she has is most likely from non evaluation, no research, hearsay, sound bites and the DESIRE to believe negative.
Indiminded, FoxNews posted something you might be interested in this morning. They said after being accused of only putting out “snippets” of Wrights sermons, they’ve posted one of his sermons in its entirity unedited for people to judge for themselves. It’s in four parts, I admit I stopped listening after the second. But for anyone who believes that it was just snippets and not an “all the time” thing with Wright, sit down for a listen, and as they said “You decide.”
http://www.foxnews.com/st.....61,00.html
Indiminded,
Yes, that’s what I meant, but thanks for reminding me of the name because I couldn’t remember it. The MK-Ultra project mostly took place in Massachussets at the Bridgewater State Hospital (a hospital for the criminally insane). There’s was even a documentary made about it, with actual on-the-scene footage, it’s called Titicut Follies. You might be interested in it if you can find it, though that might be difficult because the Feds banned it at some point because it violated patient’s confidentiality rights.
Babs
“all the time” meaning every single sermon he ever preaches.
There’s tons of nice ones out there. Bet fox won’t post those! lol
But they don’t have to either. They’re just showing the entirety of the snippits they kept looping. I an open minded person may still dislike him but will dislike him for different reasons then the image pushed with the looped snippits.
http://www.youtube.com/wa.....lV8x_-Uk2c
Rev Wright at the National Press Club conference this morning in Washington
Oh, yes, I’m very sorry, Dreadsen. I wasn’t even checking up what I was saying. You are right, the question was meant for Dem08.
Thanks for pointing that mistake out.